How Long Do You Expect A Frizzen To Last ?

[Mulemauler]

Do you remove original frizzen material to compensate for the thickness or thin out the blade material? Which blades do you prefer to use?

If the steel I'm putting on is more than 1/16" or so yes, I remove about the same thickness from the frizzen face. Almost any high carbon steel will work. Old files are great but you need to do a lot of shaping and thinning. Years ago I picked up a few feet of industrial saw blade that does a good job but have used files, and other steels as well, just needs to be high carbon and able to harden. Once I get the piece shaped it is heated to cherry red and then quenched in oil, polished and tempered to around 650. As long as the solder flows at less than 600 it does not remove the temper. This is the only thing I've found for the cheaper import locks that are a low carbon steel with thin surface hardening.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

If the steel I'm putting on is more than 1/16" or so yes, I remove about the same thickness from the frizzen face. Almost any high carbon steel will work. Old files are great but you need to do a lot of shaping and thinning. Years ago I picked up a few feet of industrial saw blade that does a good job but have used files, and other steels as well, just needs to be high carbon and able to harden. Once I get the piece shaped it is heated to cherry red and then quenched in oil, polished and tempered to around 650. As long as the solder flows at less than 600 it does not remove the temper. This is the only thing I've found for the cheaper import locks that are a low carbon steel with thin surface hardening.

Thank you for giving me a direction to go. I have a Pedersoli Kentucky. It sparks ok but I'd like it to throw a shower of sparks and what you just told me may just be the ticket.

 

[Howard Pippin]

We have had a lot of discussion on how long a flint will last or how many shots one should expect to get from a flint.
My question is how many shots should I expect from a well hardened frizzen face before it needs to either be re hardened or re faced ?
I do a lot of in house practice with my firearms and use a wooden "flint" when dry firing my flintlocks to keep the wear down .

Just curious.... does anyone know someone who will rework a frizzen for those of us who don't have a forge (or blacksmith skills)?

I casehardened for years, And only used an acetylene torch to heat whenever I was case hardening. I was taught to heat the item cherry red, coat it with the case hardening material, and heat it up again Until it is real red. for a deeper hardening effect, repeat this again. Scrape off the left over case hardener and dip the item into Water, shaking it so that it Cools evenly. It's always worked for me, I've done chisels and my frizzens for some time now that I've never had one break from doing this.
Squint

 

[Artificer]

I remember reading somewhere that the British soldiers packed a extra frizzen in their kit. Thus they could change it out if it quit sparking well. Many if not all of the outdoorsmen carried a extra frizzen or two as well.

Hi Earl,

Do you remember the time period and where the British Troops were stationed from where you read that?

The reason I ask is because lists of tools and spare parts to America during the FIW and AWI don't bear that out. They didn't send near that many spare frizzens in either time period.

Gus

 

[earlwb]

Hi Earl,

Do you remember the time period and where the British Troops were stationed from where you read that?

The reason I ask is because lists of tools and spare parts to America during the FIW and AWI don't bear that out. They didn't send near that many spare frizzens in either time period.

Gus

If my memory serves me it was in the 1700s before the Revolution War. During the French and British Wars

 

[DuncNZ]

I'm still waiting for the answer to how many licks does it take to get to the inside of the tootsie pop.

I have no idea what a tootsie pop is ? Must be an American thing .

 

[deerstalkert]

I casehardened for years, And only used an acetylene torch to heat whenever I was case hardening. I was taught to heat the item cherry red, coat it with the case hardening material, and heat it up again Until it is real red. for a deeper hardening effect, repeat this again. Scrape off the left over case hardener and dip the item into Water, shaking it so that it Cools evenly. It's always worked for me, I've done chisels and my frizzens for some time now that I've never had one break from doing this.
Squint

I do the same process. it is best to use luke warm water for the quench .
i heat to cherry red, coat with the kasinate, or whatever it is that totw sells, reheat until the coating is fluid then quench.
had a brand new TC Hawken that wouldn't throw a spark. Ordered the modified Lyman frizzen. before it got here i heat treated the original and it sparks so well i left it on the rifle.

 

[TDM]

I have no idea what a tootsie pop is ? Must be an American thing .

Yes it is, still quite tasty last time I had one, it’s been a while. It’s a hard candy lollipop with a chewy chocolate center. We still keep them on hand for the grandkids.

 

[TDM]

I do the same process. it is best to use luke warm water for the quench .
i heat to cherry red, coat with the kasinate, or whatever it is that totw sells, reheat until the coating is fluid then quench.
had a brand new TC Hawken that wouldn't throw a spark. Ordered the modified Lyman frizzen. before it got here i heat treated the original and it sparks so well i left it on the rifle.

Yes, warm at least, hot tap water is good. Something 100-130 degrees F.

 

[oldwood]

Duncnz , You ask........How long will a frizzen last ?? In 1975 , I built a custom longrifle w/44" , "C "- wt..50 cal. Getz Brl. to shoot competition. The lock was an original Bud Siler flint lock. I shot the rifle in competitions , hunting and practice at the range. Towards the end of my competition years , the wear the rifle showed was , thetouch hole burnt out , and had to be replaced , the muzzle went slightly oval from loading it . And so , how many shots was that?? The lock never faltered , and eventually , in 1990 , I sold the very accurate old .50 to a friend , and he never told me , if the frizzen quit sparking. That would be near 20 yrs. hard use. Dunno.............oldwood

 

[tenngun]

I remember reading somewhere that the British soldiers packed a extra frizzen in their kit. Thus they could change it out if it quit sparking well. Many if not all of the outdoorsmen carried a extra frizzen or two as well.

I know they were issued extra flits. Locks had to pass go no go shaping they were hand made and not interchangeable.
Guns had to be kept clean but work on them was special and usually done by the armoror
I don’t know that a soldier would have been able to change frizzens
Looking forward to one of our Brit army boys to chime in on if this was done.

 

[earlwb]

I have no idea what a tootsie pop is ? Must be an American thing .

Tootsie Pops are a hard candy ball shaped thing with a chewy chocolate center. It is mounted on top of a paper stick. It comes in many flavors as well.
https://www.tootsie.com/candy/tootsie-pops/tootsie-pops
They used to play a television commercial asking how many licks until you reach the chewy center. The wise owl never got past three licks. They have those TV commercials on You Tube too.

 

[user 48702]

1969 Tootsie Pop Commercial

 

[Johnny Tremain]

8 shots....

Thats how many I got from my brand new Pedersoli Harpers Ferry.
The frizzen went down range on the 8th shot and it took 10 months to get another one.

Now we have a Chambers lock, and it works 100 times a year , every year.

 

[M. De Land]

We have had a lot of discussion on how long a flint will last or how many shots one should expect to get from a flint.
My question is how many shots should I expect from a well hardened frizzen face before it needs to either be re hardened or re faced ?
I do a lot of in house practice with my firearms and use a wooden "flint" when dry firing my flintlocks to keep the wear down .

I'm going to approach this frizzen wear theme from a little different angle. I've never worn one out but have hardened and adjusted strike angles to increase spark production.
I speculate that most all frizzen life can be extended if folks would take the time to learn how to pressure flake manage the strike edge of their gun flints. I know for a fact this extends flint life and logic informs me the same will be true of frizzen face wear.
The reason for this is because it keeps the edge shear more consistently level across the frizzen face and with each touch up moves the strike position slightly higher thus moving the wear over more of the contact area of the frizzen face.
Hamnmering or notching does not afford nearly the control that pressure flaking does to keep the edge level and free of crack fissures and corner break off. Each row of micro chips removed both strengthens and sharpens while moving the edge slightly higher minimizing length reduction. and at the same time lesoning the groove cutting action by repeatedly stirking the same place.. When the edge gets near the top the flint is simply flipped over and the process repeated until flint length is used up.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I have no idea what a tootsie pop is ? Must be an American thing .

yes, Candy! it is a round lollipop shape, like a small golf ball on a stick, with a "tootsie roll" piece of chocolate in the center. The idea was you licked and sucked on it all day until the center became visible to eat etc.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

frizzen life depends on alloy, angle struck by the flint, etc. The original TC flintlocks were really bashers, with the flint striking about 3/5ths of the way from bottom to top and then scraping through the case hardening. My first TC frizzen was worthless before 50 shots. I expoxied a piece of thin clock spring to the face and my brother hunts with that gun still 50 odd years later. My North West Trade gun by Curley Gostomski fired thousands of shots and never even showed a scratch on the frizzen.

 

[FlinterNick]

theoretically a frizzen out to last forever, if the lock is assembled correctly.

If the lock is tuned well, the mainspring isn’t overly powerful and the frizzen is appropriately hardened, a frizzen ought to never have to be replaced.

If the flint takes large slices or gouges out of a frizzen, then its likely too soft. Or if the frizzen spring is too strong it could push back too.

 

[oldwood]

Replaced my buddies' T. C. flint lock with a new replacement L and R. Good to go now.

 

[DuncNZ]

I have seen old ( 1960-70's) Spanish made flintlocks which ran out of hardness and were resoled by riveting on a new frizzen face .
British troops were told to make sure their flint was sharp and was tightly screwed in the cock ( hammer ) before battle