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How long does it take you between your first to second shot?
- Thread starter Rockrivr1
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Russ T Frizzen
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And the sights are primitive at best....
Patching would definitely take more time than bare-balling it, time that could not be spared in battle. Whetzel would wait until the pursuit had closed to point blank range before shooting from the hip, then take off at a dead run while reloading, so his speed shooting was not aimed fire. I am convinced that rifles in close-combat situations were loaded in the same fashion as muskets.
If you saw the movie "Glory", the one recruit was doing pretty good on the range until the Colonel walked up behind him and started shooting off his revolver behind his ear and screaming at him to hurry up. Then he started fumbling around, dropping cartridges and caps. The point being it is one thing to speed load and fire accurately when the only thing at stake is a score, another thing entirely to fire accurately and reload with bullets whizzing around your head, and your buddies dropping like flies all around you.
One solution that was documented in many battles was to have 3 or 4 guys passing loaded rifles up to the designated marksman who would take a good bead from cover and fire, pass it to the rear for safe reloading under cover, and then take a freshly loaded rifle handed up and shoot it, and so forth. This is what the Rebels did at Marye's Heights at Fredericksburg, albeit with percussion rifle muskets.
Therefore, I believe that aimed rapid fire with a properly patched-ball loaded rifle may be an interesting exercise, but I don't think it was the norm in the frontier days. You took your one aimed shot, after which, depending on the situation, your rifle became in effect a smoothbore.
If you saw the movie "Glory", the one recruit was doing pretty good on the range until the Colonel walked up behind him and started shooting off his revolver behind his ear and screaming at him to hurry up. Then he started fumbling around, dropping cartridges and caps. The point being it is one thing to speed load and fire accurately when the only thing at stake is a score, another thing entirely to fire accurately and reload with bullets whizzing around your head, and your buddies dropping like flies all around you.
One solution that was documented in many battles was to have 3 or 4 guys passing loaded rifles up to the designated marksman who would take a good bead from cover and fire, pass it to the rear for safe reloading under cover, and then take a freshly loaded rifle handed up and shoot it, and so forth. This is what the Rebels did at Marye's Heights at Fredericksburg, albeit with percussion rifle muskets.
Therefore, I believe that aimed rapid fire with a properly patched-ball loaded rifle may be an interesting exercise, but I don't think it was the norm in the frontier days. You took your one aimed shot, after which, depending on the situation, your rifle became in effect a smoothbore.
I've never actually timed myself, nor am I in much of a hurry when I load. It generally takes me less than a minute though. After you've done it enough times, you fall into a routine where each step goes pretty efficiently. The steps themselves are pretty quick, it's all the fumbling between steps that adds up. Once you get past that, it goes a lot faster. 2 to 3 shots a minute would be a pretty good clip, but I think it would be possible for someone who trains and practices speed.
Personally, I enjoy the routine and will sometimes add a step or two, like priming from a priming horn instead of the powder horn, just because I enjoy it. If I'm shooting for hardcore groups, I'll take more time and swab between shots, carefully press the ball on top of the charge to make sure I'm using exactly the same pressure, etc.
For now, don't sweat it. Take your time and work on finding the ways to do each step that work best for you. It won't be long until they become routine and you can zip through them. You'll be rewarded by better groups and more satisfaction in the end.
Personally, I enjoy the routine and will sometimes add a step or two, like priming from a priming horn instead of the powder horn, just because I enjoy it. If I'm shooting for hardcore groups, I'll take more time and swab between shots, carefully press the ball on top of the charge to make sure I'm using exactly the same pressure, etc.
For now, don't sweat it. Take your time and work on finding the ways to do each step that work best for you. It won't be long until they become routine and you can zip through them. You'll be rewarded by better groups and more satisfaction in the end.
In speed events I can keep up maybe one shot every 40 seconds with bagged fixings. Half that if shooting from pre-patched ball blocks. But in less hurried shooting I take a couple minutes between shots.
Deer are usually shot with a cold barrel.
Deer are usually shot with a cold barrel.
longfowler
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In one primitive biathlon, we have an event called "king of the hill" - fastest person to shoot a swinging gong 3 time wins. my personal best is 3 HITS (not just shots, but aimed HITS) in 1 min 23 sec. and I'm not even CLOSE to being the fastest, but we're talking about folks who have shot ALOT. and we use tricks like carrying premeasured powder in paper cartridges, loading blocks, coned barrels ( no short stater), and sticking the ram rod in the snow not in the ferules. as you shoot more you'll learn how to be efficient, and that's the key to speed, not rushing! but that'll be years down the road and thousands of rounds from now - just think of all the fun you'll have getting to that point!
Rockrivr,
Like others have said,the speed of
loading will come with practice.If it takes you
10 minutes to get it right...then it takes
10 minutes.Repetition will lower the time.For
a new person it is more important to get it done
right than to get it done fast.IMHO
snake-eyes :hmm:
Like others have said,the speed of
loading will come with practice.If it takes you
10 minutes to get it right...then it takes
10 minutes.Repetition will lower the time.For
a new person it is more important to get it done
right than to get it done fast.IMHO
snake-eyes :hmm:
Less than 60 seconds to carefully load, and take a well placed second shot.
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/spring97/wetzel.html
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/spring97/wetzel.html
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......... :shocked2:grzrob said:
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Isee you did not answer the question.....how long? fer roy? about a month! he builds a new one, then loads,shoots..and builds another..really nice if ya can do it!Roy said:
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that one of them laid back southern deers? :blah:Roy said:
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composure is GOOD!........I'veheard... :wink:Roy said:
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Mr. Rockrivr1,
When hunting, it normally only takes me 2 to 3 seconds between first and second shot. Double barreled weapons can be advantageous :grin:
Best Wishes
When hunting, it normally only takes me 2 to 3 seconds between first and second shot. Double barreled weapons can be advantageous :grin:
Best Wishes
loading from powder horn to antler measure, from measure to gun, blcked prb + capper ready= less than a minute in field.
approx 15 seconds while dreaming of hunting, the fastest in 10 sec when chased (again in my dream) by a baaad ind. :wink:
(talking about capper reloading, +/- 5 seconds for flint w/ fffg)
approx 15 seconds while dreaming of hunting, the fastest in 10 sec when chased (again in my dream) by a baaad ind. :wink:
(talking about capper reloading, +/- 5 seconds for flint w/ fffg)
JackAubrey
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Rifles may be different in that you have the rifling to gather soot.However once,just once ,for the sake of curiosity,I violated every safety rule I could imagine and fired my Brown Bess as a contemporary solder might.First to halfcock,handle cartridge,tear cartridge,prime pan,close frizzen,pour powder downbore followed by ball,draw rammer,ram charge,return rammer,go to full cock and fire.It was effective and quick however I felt unnerved ramming a charge on a primed weapon-great way to lose a hand.My curiosity satisfied , I see no sane reason to repeat the experiment.By the way,I did manage three fires in one minute.Best regards,J.A.
Many Klatch
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30 to 50 seconds between shots with a rifle is a nice leisurely pace for a load for me. With practice it all falls together nicely. My rifle is set up to shoot a undersized ball .526 in a .54 rifle so I don't have to pound the ball down. My rifle muzzle is coned to make the ball easier to start. It also has round bottom rifling so I don't have to clean between shots. I can get 20 to 30 shots before it gets difficult to load.
After a while your shooting pouch and gear all fall to hand automatically. For a real fast second shot in a rifle I have bare balled it and left the patch off. I still use the ramrod to make sure that the ball is sitting tight on the powder. Bare ball in a rifle usually shoot about as well as they do with the patch about 3 out of 4 times. The other 1 out of 4 times is a real flyer.
Many Klatch
After a while your shooting pouch and gear all fall to hand automatically. For a real fast second shot in a rifle I have bare balled it and left the patch off. I still use the ramrod to make sure that the ball is sitting tight on the powder. Bare ball in a rifle usually shoot about as well as they do with the patch about 3 out of 4 times. The other 1 out of 4 times is a real flyer.
Many Klatch
Many Klatch
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We have done a rapid fire drill with rifles per one of the old drill books. We had 10 shooters in a line. One would step forward shoot, and step back and start to load. The next would step forward and shoot and then step back to load. This went from one end of the line to the other. By the time the last shooter had fired, the first had reloaded in time to step up and shoot. This was used as a harassing fire by riflemen on the flanks of a regiment. It is a fact that an aimed shot whistling by your ears every 5 or 10 seconds would count as harassment.
Many Klatch
Many Klatch
