How many grains in pan

[M. De Land]

I did test that aspect Dave about moisture absorption of BP in my bluing cabinet with 100 percent humidity and it took several hour for even the 4F to have any noticeable effect in flashing from flint ignition in a pan.
Now do the same with fouling present and we have a whole new scenario.
Contrary to popular notion BP itself does not readily absorb moisture from the air if not mixed with fouling in the pan.

 

[Dewey]

Contrary to popular notion BP itself does not readily absorb moisture from the air if not mixed with fouling in the pan.

Very true. Charcoal and sulfur don't absorb water to speak of, and potassium nitrate is also not very hygroscopic, absorbing about 0.03% water in 80% relative humidity over 50 days.

 

[MSW]

I have made several 'priming horns' with the gadget you describe at the front. it seems to throw about three grains of 4F (haven't actually weighed it)

there are some potential problems with these dispensers. if you are aware of them, they're not too terribly difficult to overcome:

+++ they're not HC/PC (to the best of my knowledge and belief) so if someone gets on your case about that, you'll have to think of some way to cope. just sayin' ...

+++ the tube is easily clogged, especially with 4F powder. the front of the thing unscrews, to it's pretty easy to 'field strip' the thing and clear the clog BUT

+++ do not succumb to the temptation- don't oil it. this just makes things worse. (don't ask me how I know :cursing: :redface: ) ... once you have cleared the funk from the gadget, the best you can do (if you can't live without putting something one the inner parts), is an applications of Renaissance Wax. go easy: a little bit goes a long way.

+++ they do not (in my estimation) put enough powder in the pan. to fix this, I have tried cutting off the tip at an angle. I also tried notching the tip. the angled tip seems to work better.

+++ it's easy to take these things apart (did I mention that?) and it is, therefore, easy to have the little spring go ZZZZZING out into the Schroeder-esque world, where the spring only exists in a quantum state. These springs can be found at the local hardware store. (not those dreadful 'big box' places, but a proper hardware store with creaky wooden floors, a pressed tin ceiling, a zillion washers in apothecary boxes, and sales folks who know what they're doing) ... when you first get the gadget, take the spring in as an example and show the clerk what you need. buy a bunch of them- they're cheap.

hope this helps. Make good smoke!

 

[jamesthomas]

I use 4ffff powder (just because I have 2 lbs. of it) I have a Large Siler on one rifle and a L&R Bailes lock on another, both get 3 grains and both go off like fire crackers.

 

[M. De Land]

Now if you can get it to go off like a "gun" you will be in business! :rotf:

 

[Dewey]

Now if you can get it to go off like a "gun" you will be in business! :rotf:

Yeah ... don't firecrackers go: sssssssBANG!!! ???? :blah:

NOT how I want MY rocklock to sound !!! :haha:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Contrary to popular notion BP itself does not readily absorb moisture from the air if not mixed with fouling in the pan.

True, BUT when we're talking in a pan on a flintlock arm, we're talking about a location prone to moisture beading in foggy weather, due to the conductivity of the metal (in both the lock and barrel) lowering the surface temperature, plus with the increase surface area of the 4Fg powder, you may have a greater moisture problem with some lock designs on flintlocks. :wink: At lest that's what my testing showed in the field in actual hunting conditions.

LD

 

[Scota4570]

"+1 here. Keep it simple."

+2!

The business about too much prime makes it slow is not so....if your rifle is made right. Let me explain. I used to own a TC Hawkin flinter. It went clack-poof-bang. Terrible!

I recently made a long rifle using a large Siler lock. The touch hole is high and large. The pan cover metal is over the touch hole when closed. It is slightly above the mid line of the pan cover and pan top meeting line. It does not matter how much you over fill it because the fire is always under the touch hole.

The liner is drilled out to 1/16th inch, you can see the main charge after you load. The liner is in the side of the barrel, no convoluted passageways in a patent breech.

This rifle just goes bang. No perceived delay. More prime makes more smoke from the pan but no greater delay.

The old TC did everything wrong. Low touch hole, small touch hole,patent breech, marginal lock quality. They could not have done much more wrong.

Oh yeah, how much prime?.....use a little. The amount does not matter.

 

[M. De Land]

One more thought I had on the amount of prime in the pan is spark focus and this relates to the shape and position of both the flint and frizzen.
If you dry pan fire a few times one can see the direction and focus of where the sparks strike the pan area and many times they do not directly hit the pan before ricocheting around some.
In this case the more area one has covered with priming the more sure the ignition especially when the flint wears and spark production is reduced.

 

[Scota4570]

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/

 

[hanshi]

I find myself in disagreement with the "fill the pan" crowd. I try to use just a small pinch of prime and ignition seems (to me) instantaneous. When I fill the pan(s) completely up there is more powder to burn and I can tell it's very slightly slower than when I use, say, 1/3 pan full.

But being realistic, it's difficult to prime just this amount in the woods especially from some sort of (got one) primer horn. It's easier to do with a brass springy thingy. When in a hurry or in the woods I simply dump and shoot without worrying about amount. It's really a non issue for the most part.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I find myself in disagreement with the "fill the pan" crowd. I try to use just a small pinch of prime and ignition seems (to me) instantaneous. When I fill the pan(s) completely up there is more powder to burn and I can tell it's very slightly slower than when I use, say, 1/3 pan full.

But being realistic, it's difficult to prime just this amount in the woods especially from some sort of (got one) primer horn. It's easier to do with a brass springy thingy. When in a hurry or in the woods I simply dump and shoot without worrying about amount. It's really a non issue for the most part.

Sums it up beautifully. :bow:

 

[M. De Land]

It may be a non issue from a hunting prospective but I can assure you it is a very big issue from a target shooting angle as uniformity and consistency of ignition is critical.
This is especially true with hand guns.
Follow through helps but has it's limits in breaking the shot on target after cock fall and ignition sequence movement plays out!

 

[Ohio Joe]

I went through all of the flintlock advise in the sticky, but I just need a little clarification. I bought one of those spring loaded priming flasks that dispenses about 3 grains of powder, is that enough to fire the main charge? I tried just pan ignition training with that amount, I thought the flash was a bit small.

Pick and prime with what gives you sure ignition be it 25, 50, 75, or 100% of the locks pan. Personally I prime at 50% (or there about's) half the pan and have never had a problem. Keep your flint sharp. :thumbsup:

 

[eaglesnester]

I have a primer that throws 5 grains of 4F seems to be all that is needed in my Hawken and Brown Bess..

 

[Grizzly Adams]

My L&R late English tends to like a little more powder in the pan (5-6 grains) for good ignition.

 

[eaglesnester]

I have a Lyman 54 Caliber Great Plains flintlock. It was a kit that was just basically sand, finish, and assemble. I did however install a R&L lock and a White Lightning Touch Hole Liner. The touch hole on the White Lightning is very small. Now having said that the position of my touch hole is perfect. It is at the sunset position. It is however coned on the inside and U can sometimes see grains of 3f sticking out of the hole if you look close. My ignition is or seems to be instantaneous. It does not make a whit of difference if I put a pinch of powder in the pan or fill it up to the point that the frizzen will not close completely over the pan. This rifle will fire even if I am not paying attention and fix the flint in a careless manner. It will fire with a dull flint. It just shoots and shoots. It also does not seem to matter what the load is, It can be 60-70-80-or 90 grains of powder 2f or 3f that rifle loves em shoots em all accurately. I guess I got lucky with the barrel that came with the kit.

 

[nhmoose]

My flints seem to need two pushes of that primmer of 4f to be dependable.

I do like to pour from the same charge powder horn for my fowlers/muskets however.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The more sparks your flints throw, the less powder coverage of the pan you need. The opposite is also true.

Even if ignition is a wee bit slower, for a hunting gun I would rather put up with that from a larger charge than a small charge that is slightly faster but less reliable. When you only get 1 shot after a 1000 mile drive and a week of slogging it through the mountains, you want it to work!

 

[bob1961]

I have one of those brass primers, thought it tossed out too much....so I cut bout 1/8" off the tip and it primes the pan with just enough for BOOM to happen....I feel the least amount to can get YOUR lock to fire every time is your best amount to use :v ....