I bought a Jim Chambers Virginia rifle kit. I have the ability to assemble the kit but I am definitely not a professional and do make some mistakes. I have never tried any carving or engraving and am not artistic. I want this gun to be special and done right. I also want some decoration done but not overdone. So my question is what would a fair price (ballpark figure) be for assembly and a medium amount of carving and engraving by an expert gunmaker ?
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how much to build
- Thread starter JohnN
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$1,000 or more plus shipping both ways.
It's a lot of hours, somewhere around 100-140hrs from rasp to finish oils.
Carving lay-out alone can be 8hrs or more and a feller ain't even picked up a blade.
There is a reason "kit's" are cheaper then finished custom builds.
It's a lot of hours, somewhere around 100-140hrs from rasp to finish oils.
Carving lay-out alone can be 8hrs or more and a feller ain't even picked up a blade.
There is a reason "kit's" are cheaper then finished custom builds.
alex efremenko
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A $1000.00 is probably at the bottom end of things IMO.
galamb
58 Cal.
Also agree that $1000 is probably the bottom end for a "competent" assembly job with a few bells/whistles.
There is a reason why a custom build usually starts in the 2-3K range.
A quality "kit" will be close to a grand and it costs easily that much to assemble it (if not doing it yourself).
You can take a look at this link to Mike Brooks website. He is a well known contemporary builder who does quality work which includes quite a few kit assemblies.
Anyhow, here is what you can expect to spend based on the "shopping list" (Mike Brooks)
There is a reason why a custom build usually starts in the 2-3K range.
A quality "kit" will be close to a grand and it costs easily that much to assemble it (if not doing it yourself).
You can take a look at this link to Mike Brooks website. He is a well known contemporary builder who does quality work which includes quite a few kit assemblies.
Anyhow, here is what you can expect to spend based on the "shopping list" (Mike Brooks)
Contact Mike Brooks for a realistic price...I think it might be a lot more than $1500 for assembly and a "moderate amount of carving and engraving". If it's to be final finished, then the price will be higher.
I've done 3 Chambers' "kits" and w/ the work you want done, the price as a spec build on 2 LRs offered on TOW's consignment sales was $4500 and they sold w/in weeks of posting. The other LR was sold by me on the internet for the same price.
If you paid approx. $900 for the "kit" as did I, then my labor was worth #3600 for a carved, engraved and completely finished LR. Of course this included a custom made, engraved 4 piece Pbox.
One of the first things you should do is call Jim Chambers and ask him who you should contact...Mike Brooks might be one of the names offered......Fred
I've done 3 Chambers' "kits" and w/ the work you want done, the price as a spec build on 2 LRs offered on TOW's consignment sales was $4500 and they sold w/in weeks of posting. The other LR was sold by me on the internet for the same price.
If you paid approx. $900 for the "kit" as did I, then my labor was worth #3600 for a carved, engraved and completely finished LR. Of course this included a custom made, engraved 4 piece Pbox.
One of the first things you should do is call Jim Chambers and ask him who you should contact...Mike Brooks might be one of the names offered......Fred
54ball
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Since a basic carved longrifle runs about $2500 a Chambers kit is around $1000, expect $1500 + or - depending on what you want.
I do know Mike Brooks will build Chambers kits.
Link
Clay Smith may be able to help, he has always been prompt when responding to me.
Link
This is what I would ask for.
Butt stock and upper forestock moulding, simple thumb hole in woodedn patch box lid, beavetail lock panels and a sculpted cheek piece. If I wanted a little more a very simple design behind the cheek piece would be nice but not essential.
The more good work you can do the better. If you can do the basic assembly, that's great and will reduce cost. On the other hand if the maker has to fix your screw ups, that will add cost.
Do not take my word, ask the maker. Let him give you a price, that's just good business. It could be more than posted on here or possibly even a good bit less.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
I do know Mike Brooks will build Chambers kits.
Link
Clay Smith may be able to help, he has always been prompt when responding to me.
Link
This is what I would ask for.
Butt stock and upper forestock moulding, simple thumb hole in woodedn patch box lid, beavetail lock panels and a sculpted cheek piece. If I wanted a little more a very simple design behind the cheek piece would be nice but not essential.
The more good work you can do the better. If you can do the basic assembly, that's great and will reduce cost. On the other hand if the maker has to fix your screw ups, that will add cost.
Do not take my word, ask the maker. Let him give you a price, that's just good business. It could be more than posted on here or possibly even a good bit less.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
I'm doing a poor boy/ barn gun design... Nothing fancy besides a nickel trigger guard and nickel ram rod pipes. Simple as it gets, and it's still costing me about $900 give or take a few dollar's. Definitely not in the "high end" but certainly not cheap. Yet definitely worth every penny IMO. These type of firearms are unique, one of a kind, historic and sentimental works of art. I've always been drawn to MLr's, unlike the modern day dime o dozen black rifle's. These beautiful pieces no matter how expensive or inexpensive, just ooze beauty and individuality, everyone unique in there own way! I always like to use my .50 cal Traditions Hawken as an example, (Oh no a traditions! :shocked2
bought from a pile of parts for under $120.00... spent allot of time re-working the finish and fit of the parts that hardly would fit a brick to say the least! Upon completion, I've got a rifle that's amazingly accurate, lightweight, and one of a kind all for under $120.00. I don't necessarily think you have to spend a small fortune to have a quality rifle... I know the dear in my deep freezer didn't care. I like to think that the careful attention to the build and details are going to bless you with quality in IMO. Granted I'm a firm believer of quality components, like your lock for example, My $120.00 hawken wears a $140.00 L&R lock... Some might say that's ridiculous, but not after they pull the trigger. All in all, in my experience great things can be done with a little or allot, guess it all depends on what you prefer! :hatsoff:
Here she is... just so your can see!
bought from a pile of parts for under $120.00... spent allot of time re-working the finish and fit of the parts that hardly would fit a brick to say the least! Upon completion, I've got a rifle that's amazingly accurate, lightweight, and one of a kind all for under $120.00. I don't necessarily think you have to spend a small fortune to have a quality rifle... I know the dear in my deep freezer didn't care. I like to think that the careful attention to the build and details are going to bless you with quality in IMO. Granted I'm a firm believer of quality components, like your lock for example, My $120.00 hawken wears a $140.00 L&R lock... Some might say that's ridiculous, but not after they pull the trigger. All in all, in my experience great things can be done with a little or allot, guess it all depends on what you prefer! :hatsoff: Here she is... just so your can see!
Sometimes, depending on the skills of the "kit" buyer, it's better to not do a thing and let the builder start from scratch. If he has to "correct" mistakes, it might cost more.
If you did nothing to the "kit", you can tell whoever is going to "build" it, that fact. The "bids" would be more straight forward doing it that way....no possibility of unknown boo boos.....Fred
If you did nothing to the "kit", you can tell whoever is going to "build" it, that fact. The "bids" would be more straight forward doing it that way....no possibility of unknown boo boos.....Fred
matt denison
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" So my question is what would a fair price (ballpark figure) be for assembly and a medium amount of carving and engraving by an expert gunmaker ? "
Totally ballpark:
Double the price of the kit to have it finished ie; if you paid $800 for the kit expect to pay $800 plus or minus for the labor depending on the kit and who you pick to do the work.
For "medium amount of carving and engraving by an expert" double the amount again.
$800 for the kit
$1600 for the labor
total = somewhere around $2,400 or more. That is fair price. You might find some kind ol' gent working in his basement who'll do the job for less just to have something to do.
If you really want a special gun then shop around, take a look at the CLA webite and contact the fellows featured there.
I could recomend builders but hesitate to do so on a public forum because I could leave someone out who deserves recognition. That would be embarrassing and unprofessional. Good luck.
Totally ballpark:
Double the price of the kit to have it finished ie; if you paid $800 for the kit expect to pay $800 plus or minus for the labor depending on the kit and who you pick to do the work.
For "medium amount of carving and engraving by an expert" double the amount again.
$800 for the kit
$1600 for the labor
total = somewhere around $2,400 or more. That is fair price. You might find some kind ol' gent working in his basement who'll do the job for less just to have something to do.
If you really want a special gun then shop around, take a look at the CLA webite and contact the fellows featured there.
I could recomend builders but hesitate to do so on a public forum because I could leave someone out who deserves recognition. That would be embarrassing and unprofessional. Good luck.
I'm a "lesser" builder. I've buil close to 100 guns to date. Mostly I build from a plank, but have built a couple of dozen "kits".
I've just finished a very nice Chambers York kit, in the manner of Schroyer. My fee was $1800.00. That means my labor was less than $10/hr. most folks think it's is WAY TOO MUCH.
We do this because we love it. Not to support our families!!
Good luck!
I've just finished a very nice Chambers York kit, in the manner of Schroyer. My fee was $1800.00. That means my labor was less than $10/hr. most folks think it's is WAY TOO MUCH.
We do this because we love it. Not to support our families!!
Good luck!
Dane said:
That is because YOU were building it, not them. Were THEY doing it, probably would have cost $ 25. - $ 35. an hour, because THEIR time is very important...... :shocked2: :rotf: :rotf: You were just doing it at home on free time, it didn't cost anything..... :idunno: :rotf:
Muzzleloader guys are the cheapest guys in the world......... well....... :idunno: next to my brother-in-law....... :rotf: :rotf:
I don't know if muzzleloader building guys are the "cheapest in the world" or the buyers are the "cheapest guys in the world".....or both? Anyways, whichever it is, most custom built muzzleloading rifles are priced too low for the skills req'd. This is partly caused by new builders trying to gain a reputation or by builders trying to overcome an inferiority complex....I know because I went through these same drills.
The "modern mindset" causes this phenomenon of buying "cheap" whether intentional or not. I stopped taking orders a few years back partly because of "cheap" and now only build spec LRs and price them fairly...both to the buyer and for me. I'm willing to not sell my builds cheaply and will let them "sit on the rack" in lieu of lowering the prices. But, I don't build for a living as do some builders
Factory made Mlers are cheaper than custom Mlers and also are in competition w/ custom builders and many buyers of lower priced factory made MLers really don't know the differences.....not "bad mouthing" the buyers of factory made MLers because w/o them, many wouldn't be shooting MLers.
The well known builders quote prices well above the average and deservedly so.....they
"paid their dues" early on, many times are true artists and many times earn a living in a very "difficult market".....Fred
The "modern mindset" causes this phenomenon of buying "cheap" whether intentional or not. I stopped taking orders a few years back partly because of "cheap" and now only build spec LRs and price them fairly...both to the buyer and for me. I'm willing to not sell my builds cheaply and will let them "sit on the rack" in lieu of lowering the prices. But, I don't build for a living as do some builders
Factory made Mlers are cheaper than custom Mlers and also are in competition w/ custom builders and many buyers of lower priced factory made MLers really don't know the differences.....not "bad mouthing" the buyers of factory made MLers because w/o them, many wouldn't be shooting MLers.
The well known builders quote prices well above the average and deservedly so.....they
"paid their dues" early on, many times are true artists and many times earn a living in a very "difficult market".....Fred
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emphasis addedBirddog6 said:
now wait a darn minute ... I am NOT a cheapskate: fact is, I've never even bothered to think about how to recycle kitty litter
:rotf:
(in truth, we are a pretty thrifty, nay frugal, bunch.)
Sat down yesterday with the man who is going to build my gun.Luckily he lives fairly close. Knowing what it takes to assemble one of these and with the information I gathered here and other places I feel I'm getting a very good deal. I looked at other guns he built so was able to see first hand his abilities. We looked through Shumway's book, and other pictures on the internet and decided on carvings and engravings. He has 3 other builds before mine so it may be a few months till he can start on mine. Nice thing is I can go and see the progress he is making from time to time. Thanks for all the feedback.
Tomtom don't charge ANYTHING for his builds.......but they don't look to good as has no thumbs.....and he hurry's on them, and uses inferior mat'ls :youcrazy:
Good luck on getting his address for a build tho......and no cell number either.......
Just can't trust him, he might get your down payment and buy a bag of tinder vittles and forget you ever sent $$.....
Marc n tomtom
Good luck on getting his address for a build tho......and no cell number either.......
Just can't trust him, he might get your down payment and buy a bag of tinder vittles and forget you ever sent $$.....
Marc n tomtom
Hi,
Some people that put together a Lyman kit, think they are gun builders. They are not!
It takes a lot of skill to mate a breech plug properly, it takes a lot of skill & patience to fit a butt plate, and entry thimble.
So somebody that is going to build you a rifle for five or six hundred dollars is working for $3.50 to $4.25 per hour.
Good luck on that quest.
Fred
Some people that put together a Lyman kit, think they are gun builders. They are not!
It takes a lot of skill to mate a breech plug properly, it takes a lot of skill & patience to fit a butt plate, and entry thimble.
So somebody that is going to build you a rifle for five or six hundred dollars is working for $3.50 to $4.25 per hour.
Good luck on that quest.
Fred
Yep. So far I have built 6 longarms. 3 rifles and a smoothbore from Pecatonica and 2 smoothbores from TRS. But I have never done any decorating ( carving or engraving). My work is ok but nowhere near professional.It's getting better. On my latest rifle I did my lugs and sights for the first time. This one I want to be really, really, nice.
