How tight should patches be?

[Habs]

I have not done a scientific test comparing different patch thicknesses, but I was hoping someone could provide me with a rule of thumb.

When I was a kid, I got good accuracy out of my TC New Englander using T-shirt material as a patch. Last fall when I got back into muzzleloading, I bought some pre-lubed patches and noticed they fit tighter.

I won't be using homemade patches until after deer season, since until I kill something, all my range sessions will involve my hunting load, but I do want to replace bought patches with a cheaper alternative.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Non-scientific method:

Patch should be twice the thickness of the result of the bore minus the ball diameter.

Take a .50 cal for instance. .500" - .490" = 0.010"

0.010" x 2 = 0.020"

I use a 0.010" patch for really easy loading, a 0.015" patch for most shooting, and a 0.018 to 0.020" patch for tight target work.

Some shooters use a bore diameter ball plus a patch. They are fanatics and beat on the poor gun with mallets and palm savers. be suspicious of such zealots.

Cotton mattress or pillow ticking makes good patching material. A square yard of it costs around $5 at a fabric store and makes 600 patches or so.

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

Want some FREE patching? Next time you throw away a pair of jeans, cut them up into patch material. Pretty thick,but it works well and most jeans are 100% cotton. Don't use synthetics, as they can melt and make a mess in your bore.

 

[sneakon]

I have only tested two different patch thicknesses in my .54 cal, but the thicker (~.018) gave better results in all combinations of ball size and powder load. I think it should be noted that different types of material compress to different thicknesses so results could vary among patches of the same uncompressed thickness. Tightness of the weave probably effects compression, as well as the effectiveness of the seal between the ball and barrel. These details are probably only important to the perfectionist target shooter. I like consistency. Get a material that works and stick with it.

 

[susie s]

One that's thick enough to make a good seal, but you can still load reasonalbly. I always pick up a few of mine every once and a while after they're shot and see if they're still intact of if they are blown out. I like a densely woven light weight denim .012, but most people I shoot with use thicker ones. That's what works well for me. I take a mic to Walmart and buy a couple of yards and that lasts me a long time. S

 

Here's proof that I'm a flatlander at heart. I heard so much about Wal-Mart .017-.018" pillow ticking that I bought it first and bought two different szes of balls,.610 and .600. I figured I would let the ball diameter be the variable and the patching to be the constant during my load workup. I fiddled with the amount of powder and tried different patchlubes until it started grouping good. Check out the photo called Jaeger Range Report under the Photo section to see where I am now with my load combo. I know that the pillowticking is fairly consistant in quality and it'scheap. :hatsoff:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings All.

Wellllll......, just color me a fanatical zealot of suspicious nature who is one of those who uses a bore size ball (.500) and on a hot day over bore size (.5035) with .018-.020 inch pillow ticking patching and only use a small rawhide mallet to set the ball 1/8 inch below the muzzle.

A 6 inch short starter is used to PUSH the ball down with the hand, and then seated on top of the powder with the ram rod.

I do not seem to have any trouble loading bore size balls with .018-.020 thick pillow ticking. Beats me why not.................. I dunno know...................Maybe, it is because I might have learned one or two things during the past 52 years of shooting black powder muzzle loading rifles.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I shoot twice a year with 80 to 100 members of the TMLRA who load the same way. Rabbit03 is one of them. Sorry about 03, but sooner or later, we all have to come out of the closet.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

I personally don't like to have to hammer the balls down the bore--but I am not a bench target shooter either. My first ML gun was a H&A Heritage underhammer in .36 that I shot without a patch using handmade 'conicals'about bore size. That critter would shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yds. Foolishily I traded it off. Next I built a .45 longrifle from scratch using a choked Green River barrel. I used a tight fitting .445 ball and .015 patch. Had to hammer the ball down 4" or so before it would load, then had to swab well between shots to reload! Ok for the bench, I guess, and even my hunting load of 65 gr fffg grouped 1" at 50 yds. Quit shooting the rifle for years 'cause I didn't like the loading problems. Then recently I tried .440 balls (and reduced the charge to 50 grs fffg)--voila! easy to load and I won the first two offhand matches I tried it on. Still have not benched that load, so don't know what the groups can be....but they are plenty good for hunting! The other rifles I have use ball/patch combos that do not require a hammer, though they do require a short starter. I like tight but not too tight. It ought to load with relative ease with a regular rod IMHO.

 

[montanadan]

John L. Hinnant-you stated how you load.I would like to know why you load that way?I have read your other posts(with interest) ,not trying to start anything.I am still sort of new to this .Just trying to learn..Respectfully Montanadan

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Montanadan,

Received you PM.

JLH

 

[JeffinNZ]

I just finished some experimenting with patch thickness in my percussion rifle.
Lately I had been using .395 balls in my .40cal Colerain with a .023 denim patch. This was TIGHT but I could still start with a short starter.
Out of interest I ran some of the 0.018 patches for the flinter through it and they shot BETTER!
Morale of the story ; your rifle will tell you what it likes best.

 

[Stumpkiller]

. . . who uses a bore size ball (.500) and on a hot day over bore size (.5035) with .018-.020 inch pillow ticking patching and only use a small rawhide mallet to set the ball 1/8 inch below the muzzle.

You're a better man than I. With my memory and attention span I'd be in bad shape when I got that ball set and realized I'd forgot the powder. I can pull my 0.010" undersize balls with 0.018" patch by getting ahold of the 2" of slippery wood rammer sticking out when I screw the ball puller on the pinned tip. I'd be afraid I'd pull the tip right off with a ball set that hard IF I had the finger strength to move it.

I'm lazy, too. You also have to carry a rawhide mallet and short starter in your hunting bag that I don't. ::

 

[Runner]

I carry a wooden mallet most of the time. I got into the habit whe I was shooting the pistols all day every day. It had a slot at the end that allowed it to be used to load, swab, or with a brush or jag, clean. It had a 14 inch handle/rod. Since I don't carry a pistol anymore, I cut the handle down to about 4 inches. It is still the easiest tool to start a ball flush with that I have ever used. It also has other uses, or did when it had the longer handle. I also carry a leather thong with a hangman's noose tied to help pull stuck ramrods and such. I generally shoot 495's with Wally World blue pillow ticking or .0015 pre-lubed commercial patches. I swab between shots so the tight load is no problem.

 

[MikeChapin]

Most of my rifles take a tap with the short starter to get them in the barrel, after that they short start without hammering and can be pushed down with the rifle's ramrod. Tight but not exceptionally so. I do prefer a smaller ball and thicker patch.

Every rifle is different so you will need to find the combination that works best for your particular rifle. A good example is my old Mountain Rifle. I had shot Ox-Yoke .018 ticking in it for years. I decided to try the .022 cotton duck than I use in most of my other rifles. Suprisingly the 50 yard group went from clover leaf to about 2 - 2 1/2 inches. I went back to the Ox-Yoke and it came right back in.

 

[3 stinky dogs]

Wellllll......, just color me a fanatical zealot of suspicious nature who is one of those who uses a bore size ball (.500) and on a hot day over bore size (.5035) with .018-.020 inch pillow ticking patching and only use a small rawhide mallet to set the ball 1/8 inch below the muzzle.

[/quote]Do you use such a tight fitting set up for target work ? and why an over size ball on hot days?I am just getting comfortable with my BP guns So another question is how much does the weather evvect your load accuracy on hot or cold day's ?

 

[MikeChapin]

[/quote]Do you use such a tight fitting set up for target work ? and why an over size ball on hot days?I am just getting comfortable with my BP guns So another question is how much does the weather evvect your load accuracy on hot or cold day's ? [/quote]

I haven't seen much difference and I've been out at -10 (not my brightest moment). The only difference I use for hunting is to use Wonder Lube instead of spit. I don't go to the range when it is really cold so could not tell you by printing on paper. I would probably be shivering too much to make it a good test.

 

[brubincam]

i cut little notches in my ramrod so i have a grip on it when swabing the bore,,, :m2c:

 

[rabbit03]

Hey John they have woken the proverbial sleeping dog! I am giving every one notice I am officially out of the closset and am proud to be a Fanatical Zealot as SOME refer to us!

John your on your own here cause I am taking up the cause and not looking back.

Stumpkiller should have known that you don't use the wrong tool for the job! John and I have never ever loaded a ball down the barrel of or shootin' irons without powder. How rediculous would that be! And if we did we would use the right tool to extract it. Not being period correct or even politicaly correct for that matter, I use what we commonly refer to as down hole devices to retrieve a dry loaded ball, oops I did say that it never happened didn't I? They are called fish tools here in South Texas used by oil field crews when drilling holes in the ground looking for Texas Gold. Anyway IF I hade ever made such a huge error in the loading proceedure, then I would use one of these rascals to retrieve the ball. See problem solved with the right tools. Although not all shooters pound the bejesus out of their balls in the first place like us Fanatical Zealots!

John if you read this post by chance please let me know if you would like to get a petition started at the Brady Range. The petition will be for the raising of the roof over the shooting positions. The reason for this should be pretty much self explanitory if your a Fanatical Zealot as we are and pound the bejesus out of the balls to get them in the barrel. We need the extra room to swing our hammers and post malls to whop them there balls in the barrel. I think this would bennefit almost every shooter at the State Championship this next year being they are Fanatical Zealots too. Can't you just envision it? All of us just a swiging our post malls and hammers to the rythum of an old gospel tune. I can hear the hammers now as they hit the mark with each blow. And the resulting clank as the hammer drives home the ball making contact with the muzzle end. So let me know if you want to get in on this petition with me ASAP.

PS my barrel is starting to have a swelling effect at the end where the ball comes out. Do you know of anything I can do to remedy this or do you know what might be causing it? It isn't a real big deal but it is starting to cause me to shoot low. Getting tired of aiming above the target backing to hit the X ring.

rabbit03

 

[oomcurt]

This is not a reply to Rabbit..just adding it on here. I found that while I can use .015 precut patches in my Renegade 54 cal. I get better results using some WallyWorld muslim. No idea as to its thickness except it is thinner than the precut ones. I also tried thier ticking...no way could I get the danged ball down the barrel. I have a sneaking suspicion that the muslim would check out at .010 thickness. Now, the feller I bought the rifle from told me he uses .012 patches. Susie mentioned earlier that she uses the same thickness. Bottom line..I believe no two rifle barrels the same caliber are exactly the same in diameter. Any comments would sure be welcome.

 

[roundball]

FWIW, I use TC and GM mass produced barrels, and industry standard nominal size balls...440/490/530/570.

I get excellent accuracy with .015" precut/prelubed plain cotton patches, and even better accuracy with .018" precut/prelubed pillow ticking.