I don't think there is any set rule of thumb to get the best accuracy out of a muzzleloader. Most Mfgs.suggest a middle of the road patch ball combo,and this will generally put the shots on paper.But normally it takes a lot of experimenting with patching,ball size and lubes to find the best combo.I also agree with others that rarely do two rifles do their best with the same combo.To me,this is part of the pleasure of muzzleloading,and it gives Us another excuse to spend time shooting.And Stumpkiller and I have the same outlook on being too lazy to fool with the extra tools and time to be hammering the projectile downbore. :front:
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How tight should patches be?
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MikeChapin
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I wouldn't worry about it too much. When it widens out a little more you can just thumb start the ball and throw the maul away. Get out the file and give to front sight a workover to bring the point of aim up.
JOHN L. HINNANT
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Greeting Rabbit03 and All,
Quick 03, send me the petition. Can I sign it twice if I sign once with each hand?
First, an apology for being slow to reply to the questions here and the PM's. Sharon and I have been out of town playing.
The "Happy" Shahan family hosted a 45th celebration of the release of John Wayne's ALAMO film, we were at Bracketville, Texas for that. Members of the Wayne family and original cast and extras were there visiting with everybody like they were family. Saturday night, the movie was shown outdoors inside the movie set Alamo walls. It was really something to sit under a brillantly clear Texas night, watch the movie inside the recreated walls, and think, " I am sitting right here where all of those action scences took place". It was a terrific time.
Now, another apology for getting of track, but I do have another life besides black powder shooting and the forum.
Gentlemen, I simply do not experience and never have experienced the various problems seen posted on this forum concerning loading a bore size ball and .018 - .020 thick patch material. And I have never seen Rabbet03, 100-150 members of the TMLRA, or various NMLRA shooters at the National NMLRA have these problems.
If 03 has observed these problems among our fellow TMLRA members, I stand corrected.
My method of preparing materials and loading has been posted more than once on this forum. When somebody post a reply that reads they do everything EXCEPT this or that, it is difficult to not think that maybe that EXCEPT might be part of the problem.
If there there is a "secret" to loading a bore size ball, it is the patch material lubricant and wiping the bore between shots. On these subjects, I will not qualify them or engage in a defensive argrument, so PLEASE, do not even try. I will simply will not respond.
My number one patch material lubricant is Teflon coating as applied by Jerry's Archery Shop, second is Young 103, and third is OX-YOKE WONDER LUBE.
Teflon coated patch material is head and shoulders number one preferable for me to all else on the availabe market. It loads any proper diameter ball easier than you can imagine. This is something you have to experience to believe. The Teflon coating is inert in all temperatures and is a constant in the loading and shooting procedure. This is one point I will not argue.
I also do not have any patience with those who proclaim that using modern products is not being true to the muzzle loading sport and Daniel Boone, David Crockett. or "my Great Grand Daddy" never used any of that stuff.
Everybody has a right to use any lubricant they desire, but I repeat, my 52 years years of ML shooting experience has given me definite opinions of what works best for me. Strange as it may seem, it is identical to at least 150 other fellow shooters I know.
When I go to a competitve event, I go with the avowed intention to win, not just try, or just be there. When I hunt(which I no longer do) I go with the intention of placing that one, first shot in exactly the right place, not just try.
Either on the competition firing line or in the hunting field, I want my rifle and shooting components to be exactly right for maximum accuracy, not just "good enuff".
I have shot along side Rabbit03 (who, by the way is an excellant offhand shot of the first water) long enough to know he shares these same views. We do differ on some other points about rifle building and design.
I know there are still questions to be answered, but my two typing fingers need a break. This will be continued later.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, Why not? I am carrying your load.
Quick 03, send me the petition. Can I sign it twice if I sign once with each hand?
First, an apology for being slow to reply to the questions here and the PM's. Sharon and I have been out of town playing.
The "Happy" Shahan family hosted a 45th celebration of the release of John Wayne's ALAMO film, we were at Bracketville, Texas for that. Members of the Wayne family and original cast and extras were there visiting with everybody like they were family. Saturday night, the movie was shown outdoors inside the movie set Alamo walls. It was really something to sit under a brillantly clear Texas night, watch the movie inside the recreated walls, and think, " I am sitting right here where all of those action scences took place". It was a terrific time.
Now, another apology for getting of track, but I do have another life besides black powder shooting and the forum.
Gentlemen, I simply do not experience and never have experienced the various problems seen posted on this forum concerning loading a bore size ball and .018 - .020 thick patch material. And I have never seen Rabbet03, 100-150 members of the TMLRA, or various NMLRA shooters at the National NMLRA have these problems.
If 03 has observed these problems among our fellow TMLRA members, I stand corrected.
My method of preparing materials and loading has been posted more than once on this forum. When somebody post a reply that reads they do everything EXCEPT this or that, it is difficult to not think that maybe that EXCEPT might be part of the problem.
If there there is a "secret" to loading a bore size ball, it is the patch material lubricant and wiping the bore between shots. On these subjects, I will not qualify them or engage in a defensive argrument, so PLEASE, do not even try. I will simply will not respond.
My number one patch material lubricant is Teflon coating as applied by Jerry's Archery Shop, second is Young 103, and third is OX-YOKE WONDER LUBE.
Teflon coated patch material is head and shoulders number one preferable for me to all else on the availabe market. It loads any proper diameter ball easier than you can imagine. This is something you have to experience to believe. The Teflon coating is inert in all temperatures and is a constant in the loading and shooting procedure. This is one point I will not argue.
I also do not have any patience with those who proclaim that using modern products is not being true to the muzzle loading sport and Daniel Boone, David Crockett. or "my Great Grand Daddy" never used any of that stuff.
Everybody has a right to use any lubricant they desire, but I repeat, my 52 years years of ML shooting experience has given me definite opinions of what works best for me. Strange as it may seem, it is identical to at least 150 other fellow shooters I know.
When I go to a competitve event, I go with the avowed intention to win, not just try, or just be there. When I hunt(which I no longer do) I go with the intention of placing that one, first shot in exactly the right place, not just try.
Either on the competition firing line or in the hunting field, I want my rifle and shooting components to be exactly right for maximum accuracy, not just "good enuff".
I have shot along side Rabbit03 (who, by the way is an excellant offhand shot of the first water) long enough to know he shares these same views. We do differ on some other points about rifle building and design.
I know there are still questions to be answered, but my two typing fingers need a break. This will be continued later.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, Why not? I am carrying your load.
I'm having a difficult time relating to the requirement, expressed in a previous post, that a patch twice the thickness of the remaining space to be filled is needed. I think the depth of your rifling has a great deal to do with the thickness of the patch. Deep grooves can require a thicker patch than shallow ones, there is more space in the deeper ones. Shallow grooves would be more than filled by patches as thick as some of those previously stated. When that happens where does the other material go? It seems to me that if the patch fills the grooves and impresses the weave on the soft lead ball, you have done enough, and it wouldn't be necessary to drive the ball down the bore with a mallet. Somebody please explain to me where I'm wrong. :master:
JOHN L. HINNANT
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Greeting Slamfire,
You are not wrong in your assessement of patch thickness. A patch that is too thick will "wad" up, wrinkle, and over lap to an extent, and definately cause accuracy problems.
IN MOST CAUSES, BUT NOT ALL, .015 t0 .020 inch thick patch material will be the best thickness for barrels with a .010 - .012 inch depth of rifling. Barrels with the shallow depth rifling .006 - .008 deep seem to shoot best with .010 - .015 inch thick patch material
Many shooters try to load a too small a diameter ball and compensate with thicker patch material. Not a good solution.
When you find a good patch material, it is then time to experiment with ball size.
Another commonly over looked factor in rifling is the width of the groove (NO, I did not say depth) Groove width that is more than the land with width WILL USUALLY require a larger diameter ball and/or thicker patch material to maximize accuracy.
Keep up the good thinking Slamfire.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
You are not wrong in your assessement of patch thickness. A patch that is too thick will "wad" up, wrinkle, and over lap to an extent, and definately cause accuracy problems.
IN MOST CAUSES, BUT NOT ALL, .015 t0 .020 inch thick patch material will be the best thickness for barrels with a .010 - .012 inch depth of rifling. Barrels with the shallow depth rifling .006 - .008 deep seem to shoot best with .010 - .015 inch thick patch material
Many shooters try to load a too small a diameter ball and compensate with thicker patch material. Not a good solution.
When you find a good patch material, it is then time to experiment with ball size.
Another commonly over looked factor in rifling is the width of the groove (NO, I did not say depth) Groove width that is more than the land with width WILL USUALLY require a larger diameter ball and/or thicker patch material to maximize accuracy.
Keep up the good thinking Slamfire.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
My daughter did an experiment when she was in high school. She varied ball size (.490, .495) and patch size (.010, .015 and .018 as I remember) in my 50 cal muzzleloader. She also varied powder charge. She had some tight combinations that worked well and also some loose combinations. The best combo was very tight and difficult to get down the bore, but second place was easy to load and had a fair amount of powder. So there was a tough-to-load best accuracy option for target work and a fast-loading "hunting load."
I haven't repeated the experiment but it would not suprise me if the barrel, balls and patch materials have changed subtly in the intervening years, so I might have to repeat the experiment. We also only did it once, in the hot summer, so the results might be wrong for cool weather.
I haven't repeated the experiment but it would not suprise me if the barrel, balls and patch materials have changed subtly in the intervening years, so I might have to repeat the experiment. We also only did it once, in the hot summer, so the results might be wrong for cool weather.
montanadan
40 Cal.
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John-Thank you for the posts,you have answered a lot of my questions..Respectfully Montanadan
JOHN L. HINNANT
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Greetings GMWW,
If you do not mind giving my two typing fingers a break, the information you have requested is on some of my previous post.
I do not have any visual postings on the Teflon coating however.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
If you do not mind giving my two typing fingers a break, the information you have requested is on some of my previous post.
I do not have any visual postings on the Teflon coating however.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
JOHN L. HINNANT
45 Cal.
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
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Greetings 3stinkdogs and All
First, I will address this issue of "HAMMERING" the ball down the barrel.
"HAMMERING" is not really an accurate description. Tapping with two or three taps is a better definition.
As mentioned in a previous post, the key to loading a bore size ball and .015 - .020 inch thick patch material is the use of Teflon coated patch material. There is no commercial or home brewed product that is close to the slickness of Teflon.
If one is not willing to try Teflon coated patch material, then do not criticize the use use of bore size ball loading.
Without using Teflon coated patch material and the required testing and shooting, there is no ground for argument.
It is not necessary to "hammer" the ball and patch to start them into the bore. Up until about 20-25 years ago, my stubb starter was a large diameter wooden furniture knobwith a piece of 3/8's diameter hickory dowel glued into the knob and extending from the the bottom of the knob 3/8's of an inch. The large diameter knob allowed me to push me to push the ball/patch into the bore with the palm of my hand or give it a bump with the palm of my hand.
Another same size wooden knob with a six inch long 3/8"s diameter dowel was my short starter. The short starter was NEVER used to hammer the ball/patch down the bore. Pushing the shorter down with the palm of the hand or pulling it down with the hand(s) was/is sufficient and EASY to do.
The ball/patch was pushed down the barrel and seated on top of the powder with a 5/16's inch diameter stainless steel range rod.
Hunting and loading in the field varys only slightly, but that will taken up next time. My two typing fingers need a break.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
First, I will address this issue of "HAMMERING" the ball down the barrel.
"HAMMERING" is not really an accurate description. Tapping with two or three taps is a better definition.
As mentioned in a previous post, the key to loading a bore size ball and .015 - .020 inch thick patch material is the use of Teflon coated patch material. There is no commercial or home brewed product that is close to the slickness of Teflon.
If one is not willing to try Teflon coated patch material, then do not criticize the use use of bore size ball loading.
Without using Teflon coated patch material and the required testing and shooting, there is no ground for argument.
It is not necessary to "hammer" the ball and patch to start them into the bore. Up until about 20-25 years ago, my stubb starter was a large diameter wooden furniture knobwith a piece of 3/8's diameter hickory dowel glued into the knob and extending from the the bottom of the knob 3/8's of an inch. The large diameter knob allowed me to push me to push the ball/patch into the bore with the palm of my hand or give it a bump with the palm of my hand.
Another same size wooden knob with a six inch long 3/8"s diameter dowel was my short starter. The short starter was NEVER used to hammer the ball/patch down the bore. Pushing the shorter down with the palm of the hand or pulling it down with the hand(s) was/is sufficient and EASY to do.
The ball/patch was pushed down the barrel and seated on top of the powder with a 5/16's inch diameter stainless steel range rod.
Hunting and loading in the field varys only slightly, but that will taken up next time. My two typing fingers need a break.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
If Teflon is the key then the door it opens is not where I wanted to go, anyway.
A synthetic stock is stronger and more stable, and an optical sighting system bolted to the barrel will further increase accuracy.
Some of us are trying to get back away from anything patented, registered or copywrited in our shooting. Teflon just doesn't light my lantern. Sorry. No Nylon sling, Dacron ball bag or Rayon haversack where I can avoid them.
Richard Allen
40 Cal.
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The first rifle I "built" was a percussion TOW Southern Rifle kit. It has a .45 caliber, 1:66 twist, 42" Green Mountain barrel.
After more than 200 hundred rounds of .445 balls and Ox-Yoke patches I began trying to improve the rifle's accuracy at 50 Yards. I used .440 and .445 balls and every kind of cotton patch and lube I had heard of at that time. I tried Pyrodex Select & RS and Goex 2f & 3f. After a year or so of experimentation I settled on what I thought was the best load for that rifle and named her Persnickerty because her accuracy went to hell with any variance from that load. The best five shot groups I was able to get off the bench at 50 yards were in the 1 1/2 - 2 inch range when measuring between the two widest holes and subtracting the width of the ball (approximately 1/2").
Then I discovered Dutch Schoultz's system and began using his methods of measuring patch material and determining which lubricant ratio worked best for Persnickerty. My best five shot groups shrunk to in the 1 -1 1/2 inch range.
Then I read somewhere that Green Mountain recommended using .451 balls in that barrel. I got some, and experimented with patches of different thicknesses lubed with Dutch's 7:1 lube recipe until I found the thickest material that would load without visible damage to the recovered patches.
After about three years of experimenting and over three thousand balls sent down range Persnickerty told me what she liked. Her best five groups now at 50 yards from the bench are ragged one hole groups that are mostly round and measure in the 1/2-3/4 inch range when I read the conditions correctly. At 25 an 50 yards she shoots to point of aim with 65 grains of Goex 3f, .0095 thick demim lubed with Dutch's 7:1 dry lube system, and .451 cast balls. Increasing the powder to 72.5 grains raises the group to point of aim at 100 yards.
I start the ball with one whack of the heel of my hand on a 2" wide wooden drawer pull with a brass stub that extends 1/4" from the surface that would be against the drawer and then cut the patch at the muzzle. I use a 4" X 5/15" stainless steel rod with a delrin boreguide and jag set into another 2" drawer pull knob to push the ball and patch down far enough to seat it with a 5/16' stainless steel range rod fitted with with another 2" drawer pull, delrin boreguide and jag. (I don't even consider using the wooden wiper to seat the load.) I wipe between shots with one side of a damp spit patch until the carbon ring near where the top of the powder column was can no longer be felt - usually two or three short strokes.
My adopted methods and loads may not work as well for anyone else but Persnickerty is well satisfied now, and when she's happy life is good.
Inaccurate rifles aren't intersting to me and eventually go to live with someone else.
Richard/Ga.
After more than 200 hundred rounds of .445 balls and Ox-Yoke patches I began trying to improve the rifle's accuracy at 50 Yards. I used .440 and .445 balls and every kind of cotton patch and lube I had heard of at that time. I tried Pyrodex Select & RS and Goex 2f & 3f. After a year or so of experimentation I settled on what I thought was the best load for that rifle and named her Persnickerty because her accuracy went to hell with any variance from that load. The best five shot groups I was able to get off the bench at 50 yards were in the 1 1/2 - 2 inch range when measuring between the two widest holes and subtracting the width of the ball (approximately 1/2").
Then I discovered Dutch Schoultz's system and began using his methods of measuring patch material and determining which lubricant ratio worked best for Persnickerty. My best five shot groups shrunk to in the 1 -1 1/2 inch range.
Then I read somewhere that Green Mountain recommended using .451 balls in that barrel. I got some, and experimented with patches of different thicknesses lubed with Dutch's 7:1 lube recipe until I found the thickest material that would load without visible damage to the recovered patches.
After about three years of experimenting and over three thousand balls sent down range Persnickerty told me what she liked. Her best five groups now at 50 yards from the bench are ragged one hole groups that are mostly round and measure in the 1/2-3/4 inch range when I read the conditions correctly. At 25 an 50 yards she shoots to point of aim with 65 grains of Goex 3f, .0095 thick demim lubed with Dutch's 7:1 dry lube system, and .451 cast balls. Increasing the powder to 72.5 grains raises the group to point of aim at 100 yards.
I start the ball with one whack of the heel of my hand on a 2" wide wooden drawer pull with a brass stub that extends 1/4" from the surface that would be against the drawer and then cut the patch at the muzzle. I use a 4" X 5/15" stainless steel rod with a delrin boreguide and jag set into another 2" drawer pull knob to push the ball and patch down far enough to seat it with a 5/16' stainless steel range rod fitted with with another 2" drawer pull, delrin boreguide and jag. (I don't even consider using the wooden wiper to seat the load.) I wipe between shots with one side of a damp spit patch until the carbon ring near where the top of the powder column was can no longer be felt - usually two or three short strokes.
My adopted methods and loads may not work as well for anyone else but Persnickerty is well satisfied now, and when she's happy life is good.
Inaccurate rifles aren't intersting to me and eventually go to live with someone else.
Richard/Ga.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Certainly accurate rifles are a joy. When I used to benchrest my .222 Rem at a club I wouldn't even bother turning in 3/4" c.t.c. targets from 100 yards. I knew the top five would all be 1/4" or less. Fussy rifles aren't interesting to me. Accuracy is nice, but, to use an old Russian saying: "Perfection is the enemy of good enough." Accuracy is like a beautiful woman. Some are born that way, some can have expensive surgery and make-up to get that way, and some eventually get that way as you drink. You're puttin a lot of work into it so I guess yours is in the middle category. I'm lazy and like either of the other two.
What do you hunt that has a vital cavity of 3/4" at 50 yards and waits while you build a bench to shoot at it from? If I can head shoot a squirrel a 20 yards and then his neighbor after a quick reload without taking my eyes off his location long enough for him to evade me I have an accurate enough rifle. Or put all my shots in the 10" vitals of a whitetail within 100 yards.
Any rifle that requires four trips into the pouch (or a table to set things on) and a heavy metal rod just to seat the ball is impractical for my needs regardless of how accurate it is. Everything I want to carry to load a rifle is attached in the thimbles. Anything more than the wood rammer carried there is too cumbersome to bother with. I have a little 1-1/2" stub starter I sometimes use to start the ball, but if I lost it the day wouldn't be over. It's tied to my ball block and usually functions as an anchor to keep the ball block tethered to my pouch (the block is in a sheath on the outside and I don't need to unbutton the pouch to load from it).
If I can hold 6" at 100 yards I'll never want for venison, and I don't use a rest not provided by God and nature except when I am filing or adjusting sights while sighting in.
A 2" group offhand at 50 yards with a rifle that I can seat the balls with a single push through the block to 6" with my hand "choked up" on the rammer, then fully seat by raising my hand and pushing the rammer down the rest of the way is success in my book. When I can get that AND accuracy I'm done working up a load.
Certainly accurate rifles are a joy. When I used to benchrest my .222 Rem at a club I wouldn't even bother turning in 3/4" c.t.c. targets from 100 yards. I knew the top five would all be 1/4" or less. Fussy rifles aren't interesting to me. Accuracy is nice, but, to use an old Russian saying: "Perfection is the enemy of good enough." Accuracy is like a beautiful woman. Some are born that way, some can have expensive surgery and make-up to get that way, and some eventually get that way as you drink. You're puttin a lot of work into it so I guess yours is in the middle category. I'm lazy and like either of the other two.
What do you hunt that has a vital cavity of 3/4" at 50 yards and waits while you build a bench to shoot at it from? If I can head shoot a squirrel a 20 yards and then his neighbor after a quick reload without taking my eyes off his location long enough for him to evade me I have an accurate enough rifle. Or put all my shots in the 10" vitals of a whitetail within 100 yards.
Any rifle that requires four trips into the pouch (or a table to set things on) and a heavy metal rod just to seat the ball is impractical for my needs regardless of how accurate it is. Everything I want to carry to load a rifle is attached in the thimbles. Anything more than the wood rammer carried there is too cumbersome to bother with. I have a little 1-1/2" stub starter I sometimes use to start the ball, but if I lost it the day wouldn't be over. It's tied to my ball block and usually functions as an anchor to keep the ball block tethered to my pouch (the block is in a sheath on the outside and I don't need to unbutton the pouch to load from it).
If I can hold 6" at 100 yards I'll never want for venison, and I don't use a rest not provided by God and nature except when I am filing or adjusting sights while sighting in.
A 2" group offhand at 50 yards with a rifle that I can seat the balls with a single push through the block to 6" with my hand "choked up" on the rammer, then fully seat by raising my hand and pushing the rammer down the rest of the way is success in my book. When I can get that AND accuracy I'm done working up a load.
I've got to go along with Stumpy on this. While certainly there are folks that greatly enjoy target shooting and very tight groups...there are also those that mainly use thier choice of gun for hunting. To be honest...trying to attain the ultimate in small groups in target shooting..and only to be interested in target shooting would be the most boring thing I could imagine. Not that there is anything wrong with that..achieving that kind of accuracy is certainly noteworthy...just not my cup of tea. Same with the tedious process of loading.
JOHN L. HINNANT
45 Cal.
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Greetings All,
In my last posting, I neglected to explain why I quit using my hand to whack the ball seater and short eater with the palm of either hand 25 years ago. Due to a medical problem with my hands, my Doctor absolutely forbade me to continue that practice.
At that time I made a new combination ball seater/short starter. The handle is Delrin, one inch O.D. X 4 inches long with one end turned for a ball seater. A six inch length of 5/16th inch diameter stainless steel rod with a brass tip is threaded into the center of the Delrin handle giving the whole affair a tee shape.
With this tool, the ball/patch is seated with a few medium hard taps of a light rawhide mallet, and the 4 inch long Delrin handle allows me a good HAND GRIP to PUSH or PULL (depending on the length of the barrel) the ball/patch 6 inches into the barrel.
Having tried using more than one wooden handle, I can say from much experience they do not last long before cracking or breaking. The Delrin handle has lasted 25 years AND SO HAVE MY HANDS.
I ended my last post stating that variations from all of the above for hunting purposes would be discussed in this posting.
To begin with, my blackpowdwer muzzle loading rifle hunting began at age 14 in Southwet Texas where the typical target was the Jackrabbit. In the 1950's. West Texas was running over with literally millions of Jack rabbits. Two or three times a week, your truly was in pursuit of the wily Jack rabbit with a borrowed 45 caliber caplock rifle. Black powder was the only safe propellant in the those days. Caps were either Remington or Alcan. Hubbards Shoe Grease was the best patch lube available.
Every outing would yield no less than 20-25 shot dead Jack rabbits. Should my 22 LR Savage 29B pump action rifle be taken instead, the score would be more like 45-50 rabbits.
These shooting days lasted until 1960 when one there was a huge rabbit die-off, and two, it was time to leave home to finish college.
Let there be no misunderstanding, I have spent thousands of hours in the hunting field with a muzzle loading rifle, successfully hunting and bringing in game ranging from squirrel to white tail deer. That does not enclude the varmint/perdators that have fallen to a round ball.
For hunting, a three hole bullet block made from an exact tracing of an original is used to hold three Teflon coated pre-patched lead balls. Part of the ball is extended through the block to facilitate lining up the ball with the bore.
While some may decry the use of Teflon coated patch material, the years have shown that time and time again, the wooden bullet block will suck the grease out of a grease lubed patch. No....., not all of it, but enough to make loading difficult. And yes..., I have tried sealing the block with everything known to man and maybe some unknown.
My combination ball seater/short starter is made from a 1/2 inch thick cross section of a 2-1/2 diameter of Elk antler. The ball ball seater is a piece of 3/8 inch diameter hickory, 1 inch long, glued into a hole in the center of one of the flat surface of the antler.
The ball short starter is a piece of 3/8 inch diameter hickory rod, six inches long, glued into the edge of the Elk antler. By the way the glue is epoxy; hope that is not too PC incorrect. Sometimes practicality has to take precedent over Political or Period Correctness.
The ball seater/short starter is kept in a special LEATHER pocket GOAT-SKIN LEATHER laced on one side of the LEATHER shoulder strap of my LEATHER hunting bag and secured with a LEATHER thong.
The traditional candy striped hickory wooden ramrod is replaced with a synthetic rod. The wood rod is used only for display and show.
Yes..,Yes.., I know. Somebody is going to bellow SYNTHETIC RAM ROD!!! WHY I AM USING THE ORIGINAL ROD THAT CAME WITH MY RIFLE BACK IN 1976, AND I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY TROUBLE WITH AND DON'T EXPECT TO.
To that, All I can reply is that person has been truly blessed. BUT.., I highly recommend that the medical insurance be kept paid up.
A broken, splintered ramrod through the hand is a very ugly sight. I have seen two. Both required major surgery and physical therapy. One required extensive theraphy lasting over a year.
Alas, my two typing fingers again need a break. I should be able to finish this with one more post.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
In my last posting, I neglected to explain why I quit using my hand to whack the ball seater and short eater with the palm of either hand 25 years ago. Due to a medical problem with my hands, my Doctor absolutely forbade me to continue that practice.
At that time I made a new combination ball seater/short starter. The handle is Delrin, one inch O.D. X 4 inches long with one end turned for a ball seater. A six inch length of 5/16th inch diameter stainless steel rod with a brass tip is threaded into the center of the Delrin handle giving the whole affair a tee shape.
With this tool, the ball/patch is seated with a few medium hard taps of a light rawhide mallet, and the 4 inch long Delrin handle allows me a good HAND GRIP to PUSH or PULL (depending on the length of the barrel) the ball/patch 6 inches into the barrel.
Having tried using more than one wooden handle, I can say from much experience they do not last long before cracking or breaking. The Delrin handle has lasted 25 years AND SO HAVE MY HANDS.
I ended my last post stating that variations from all of the above for hunting purposes would be discussed in this posting.
To begin with, my blackpowdwer muzzle loading rifle hunting began at age 14 in Southwet Texas where the typical target was the Jackrabbit. In the 1950's. West Texas was running over with literally millions of Jack rabbits. Two or three times a week, your truly was in pursuit of the wily Jack rabbit with a borrowed 45 caliber caplock rifle. Black powder was the only safe propellant in the those days. Caps were either Remington or Alcan. Hubbards Shoe Grease was the best patch lube available.
Every outing would yield no less than 20-25 shot dead Jack rabbits. Should my 22 LR Savage 29B pump action rifle be taken instead, the score would be more like 45-50 rabbits.
These shooting days lasted until 1960 when one there was a huge rabbit die-off, and two, it was time to leave home to finish college.
Let there be no misunderstanding, I have spent thousands of hours in the hunting field with a muzzle loading rifle, successfully hunting and bringing in game ranging from squirrel to white tail deer. That does not enclude the varmint/perdators that have fallen to a round ball.
For hunting, a three hole bullet block made from an exact tracing of an original is used to hold three Teflon coated pre-patched lead balls. Part of the ball is extended through the block to facilitate lining up the ball with the bore.
While some may decry the use of Teflon coated patch material, the years have shown that time and time again, the wooden bullet block will suck the grease out of a grease lubed patch. No....., not all of it, but enough to make loading difficult. And yes..., I have tried sealing the block with everything known to man and maybe some unknown.
My combination ball seater/short starter is made from a 1/2 inch thick cross section of a 2-1/2 diameter of Elk antler. The ball ball seater is a piece of 3/8 inch diameter hickory, 1 inch long, glued into a hole in the center of one of the flat surface of the antler.
The ball short starter is a piece of 3/8 inch diameter hickory rod, six inches long, glued into the edge of the Elk antler. By the way the glue is epoxy; hope that is not too PC incorrect. Sometimes practicality has to take precedent over Political or Period Correctness.
The ball seater/short starter is kept in a special LEATHER pocket GOAT-SKIN LEATHER laced on one side of the LEATHER shoulder strap of my LEATHER hunting bag and secured with a LEATHER thong.
The traditional candy striped hickory wooden ramrod is replaced with a synthetic rod. The wood rod is used only for display and show.
Yes..,Yes.., I know. Somebody is going to bellow SYNTHETIC RAM ROD!!! WHY I AM USING THE ORIGINAL ROD THAT CAME WITH MY RIFLE BACK IN 1976, AND I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY TROUBLE WITH AND DON'T EXPECT TO.
To that, All I can reply is that person has been truly blessed. BUT.., I highly recommend that the medical insurance be kept paid up.
A broken, splintered ramrod through the hand is a very ugly sight. I have seen two. Both required major surgery and physical therapy. One required extensive theraphy lasting over a year.
Alas, my two typing fingers again need a break. I should be able to finish this with one more post.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
I'm a plinker...I'm not afraid to admit it.
So I use a patch/ball combination that allows me to shoot, shoot, and shoot some more without swabbing the bore and without using a shortstarter. Yes, 60+ shots with no bore swabbing, no ball whacking, and really easy ramming is what I crave...thank you very much. So in my .50 rifle I use a .485 ball and .017 ticking and in my .702 soothbore I use a .662 ball and .017 ticking. Easy plinking.
No, it's not the most accurate load in the world...but I'm bobbing the muzzle all over the place anyway
Plink on my brothers!
Jack
So I use a patch/ball combination that allows me to shoot, shoot, and shoot some more without swabbing the bore and without using a shortstarter. Yes, 60+ shots with no bore swabbing, no ball whacking, and really easy ramming is what I crave...thank you very much. So in my .50 rifle I use a .485 ball and .017 ticking and in my .702 soothbore I use a .662 ball and .017 ticking. Easy plinking.
No, it's not the most accurate load in the world...but I'm bobbing the muzzle all over the place anyway
Plink on my brothers!
Jack
JOHN L. HINNANT
45 Cal.
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 711
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Greetings All,
Just so there is no misunderstanding, I have no problem with ANYBODY loading and shooting their rifle in anyway they desire as long as it is done in a legal and safe manner. Actually, I belong to the society whose motto is "Live and Let Live".
I think my great-uncle Willie said it best of all when he commented one day, "Every man's got a right to drink his brand of poison".
However, come to think about that now, he might have been refering to this older gentleman who was marrying a much,much younger woman of questionable reputation.
Well...., maybe that quote does not apply here, in this discussion.
When having to reload my ML in the hunting field. I do not dip into my hunting bag four times. In fact, come to think of it, I do not even go into the hunting bag one time. Yes..., that is right. The more I think about it, I am positive I do not dip into the hunting bag even one time, let alone four times.
After the shot, the rifle butt is placed on the ground, the powder horn is grasped in my right hand, held spout down, the right thumb trips the charger lever filling the charger with the right amount of powder. the powder is then dropped down the barrel. This takes 5-10 seconds while I keep my eye on the game. The charger is of the type found on most powder flask; you know, like the one on the old mountain man, Mariano Modena's powder horn.
My left hand reaches for my 3 shot ball block, places it on the rifle barrel muzzle while my right hand holds the barrel, and using my Elk Handled combination ball seater/short starter, I seat the ball in the muzzle. Of course, it is necessary to do a hand swap at that time.
Time out. Got to run and rescue a stranded Aunt.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, I have no problem with ANYBODY loading and shooting their rifle in anyway they desire as long as it is done in a legal and safe manner. Actually, I belong to the society whose motto is "Live and Let Live".
I think my great-uncle Willie said it best of all when he commented one day, "Every man's got a right to drink his brand of poison".
However, come to think about that now, he might have been refering to this older gentleman who was marrying a much,much younger woman of questionable reputation.
Well...., maybe that quote does not apply here, in this discussion.
When having to reload my ML in the hunting field. I do not dip into my hunting bag four times. In fact, come to think of it, I do not even go into the hunting bag one time. Yes..., that is right. The more I think about it, I am positive I do not dip into the hunting bag even one time, let alone four times.
After the shot, the rifle butt is placed on the ground, the powder horn is grasped in my right hand, held spout down, the right thumb trips the charger lever filling the charger with the right amount of powder. the powder is then dropped down the barrel. This takes 5-10 seconds while I keep my eye on the game. The charger is of the type found on most powder flask; you know, like the one on the old mountain man, Mariano Modena's powder horn.
My left hand reaches for my 3 shot ball block, places it on the rifle barrel muzzle while my right hand holds the barrel, and using my Elk Handled combination ball seater/short starter, I seat the ball in the muzzle. Of course, it is necessary to do a hand swap at that time.
Time out. Got to run and rescue a stranded Aunt.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
