How to empty horn?

[Toomuch51]

You've confused me.

nhmoose said "Static will not set off BP."

You say "This has been thoroughly debunked several times."

What has been debunked? His statement that static electricity will not ignite black powder, or, did you misread his comment and think he said that static electricity WOULD ignite it?

Statement of fact: Static Electricity will NOT ignite black powder.

Here is a link to one of the posts on our forum that thoroughly discusses it complete with photos.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/216296/

When you get to the post in the link, click on the red words "Experiment Link"

Checked all your mentioned links.
I see all the links posted by Musketman and myself have been deleated, (post that detailed the extencive measures that manufacturers of black powder take to eliminate static).
So I will ask again, could it be that these companies know something or are they just being paranoid?

 

[Black Hand]

Normal static electricity charges have been shown NOT to ignite blackpowder. Some people are just paranoid...

 

[necchi]

So I will ask again, could it be that these companies know something or are they just being paranoid?

Wow, :idunno: .
I'll bet you pour new powder from a plastic jug into an old saved tin one, with a brass funnel,, every time.
But when your lawnmower runs out of gas in the middle of the yard you just top it off.
(from a plastic jug)

Some folks will never figure it out.
op:

 

[AZbpBurner]

I have several horns that occasionally get used for multiple rifles/fusils.

I've saved several of those little flat bread bag clips, and have them marked for: 2F, 3F, RS or P. They easily snap onto the leather thong and stay put until I remove them.

As for determining the contents: it's either black powder or not. You can tell by both visual inspection and also by burning a sample of it.

And, personally, I'd keep a distance from anyone wanting to fill a horn with water :rotf:

 

[Katahdin]

When I heat a horn in hot water to form it,round/flat the water gets inside.Then I let it dry out and finish making the horn,I have even had some I put in hot oil. Neither appeared to hurt the horn in any way nor did it spoil the powder I put in after I completed the build.
If I had to solve the problem in the original posting,I'd use water as I wrote.However that said,what ever floats you stick.

 

[Toomuch51]

Wow, :idunno: .
I'll bet you pour new powder from a plastic jug into an old saved tin one, with a brass funnel,, every time.

But when your lawnmower runs out of gas in the middle of the yard you just top it off.
(from a plastic jug)

Some folks will never figure it out.
op:

Such an assumption can only be considered as very presumptive and irresponsible on your part, not to mention FALSE.
But to ignore the safety practices and policies of those whose businesses and very lives depend on them is also quite irresponsible.

 

[Black Hand]

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

 

[Toomuch51]

With all due respect to your test and experiments, which I do not doubt in any way, but these were done in controlled situations with controlled variables. They do not take into account the infinite amount of varied conditions that will occure in everyday field use.

 

[Black Hand]

True, one can't test all possibilities.
But we can test the most likely/probable scenarios, and there is sufficient data to show your assumption that static ignites blackpowder is incorrect.

 

[Toomuch51]

True, one can't test all possibilities.
But we can test the most likely/probable scenarios, and there is sufficient data to show your assumption that static ignites blackpowder is incorrect.

In as much as this could go on forever lets just say, that while you are correct in the vast majority of cases, under certain conditions it can and DOES happen.

 

[Black Hand]

I'd like to see your evidence..

 

[azmntman]

I'm no physicist :surrender: but I wouldn't think a spark from static would generate enough heat to ignite ?? :hmm:

 

[Black Hand]

...but I wouldn't think a spark from static would generate enough heat to ignite ?? :hmm:

You are correct - Testing has shown that there is insufficient heat to ignite blackpowder.

I believe this old-wives tale (Static and BP explosion) may have evolved out of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion, where fine particles of certain materials suspended in the air can be ignited. But no one worries about their flour or non-dairy powdered creamer exploding, which can happen...

 

[Billnpatti]

There have been a lot of suggestions and arguments on how to best empty your horn. Some good and some not so good. I'll offer my :2 by saying to simply use the wire method to break up the powder in the horn. Personally, I would not use an electric drill to enlarge the hole. I have a hand operated drill that I would use. Lacking that, I would use a small rat tail file as someone else suggested. It would need to be pretty small in diameter. One of the files intended for sharpening a chain saw would be about right. It is pretty fine but will get the job done safely. http://www.sears.com/search=chain saw files
Lastly, I would remove the old glued in plug, re-drill the hole and replace the plug with a brass one that unscrews for filling. You can get one from Track of The Wolf. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/81/1/HP-SM-B
When you get the old powder out, you can safely dispose of it by simply dumping it on your lawn or flushing it down the commode.

 

[Toomuch51]

I'd like to see your evidence..

Personal experience.
One of our customers was in the habit if premeasuring his revolver charges in used cartridge cases and carrying them in a leather bandoleer. On this one occasion when he was loading his revolver the casing jumped spark to the mouth of the cylinder igniting the charge as well as the charges already pored (fortunately no balls were loaded at this point).
Upon investigation it was discovered that the cases he was using turned out to be not brass but steel 7.62x39 Russian which picked up a static charge from being slid in and out of the leather bandoleer.

So while this is rare, and by no means common, It DOES happen.

 

[Black Hand]

The static charge would have been neutralized when he touched the metal case in the same way humans send sparks to a metal item after walking across a carpet in stocking feet. Most likely the steel case caused a spark banging against something else. Not to mention the case doesn't work as a capacitor which stores a static charge for later - any static charge would dissipate rather quickly. Also, if such a charge could ignite BP, then the pistol (made of steel) would ignite the charges in the chambers every time it was inserted or removed from the leather holster.

Not convinced it was a static discharge at all...just poor technique.

 

[Gene L]

I think the inference that a spark set off the charge is a conclusion rather than a fact. Experiments in the sticky threads above offer ample proof that a static spark will not set off BP. There could be other factors in Toomuch's example, like for example an ember remaining in one of the cylinders.

 

[Black Hand]

An excellent observation Gene.

 

[Toomuch51]

As I have said previously this controversy could go on forever, so I will conclude....proceed at your own risk.

 

[Black Hand]

....proceed at your own risk.

Haven't had any problems in the last 20 years with static electricity (plastic funnel used to fill horns from plastic & metal powder containers as well as loading & shooting while wearing wool). I guess that's just another check in the "debunked" column...