How to figure out what load to use?

[Armando]

Mine is a Traditions Hawkens Woodsman caplock. Have shot it about 10 times.

Using Goex ffg powder.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I had never even heard of "breaking in a barrel" before I started reading ML forums. I have never broke a barrel in.

Don't worry about it. Only some obsessive and serious 'X' hunters fret about lapping or breaking in a new barrel. Any need, real or imagined, for doing that varies with the make of the barrel. For most of us weekend warriors, using a new barrel 'as is' is just fine.

 

[azmntman]

+1

Then if it needed breaking in you simply get better at shooting after 200 shots :wink:

 

[rodwha]

My Lyman rifle was cutting patches at first. I did the 200 shot break in and it doesn’t maul the patches any more.

 

[rafterob]

I have that same rifle and my best grouping, most accurate load is 70 grains ff goex with a .495 ball. .490 is slightly less consistent but still provides good accuracy and is easier to start. With that load I am straight on at 25 and 50 yards. For 100 yards I crank up my back sight 1/2 screw turn.

 

[Bent Sight]

What barrel length do you have on your Hawken?

I have a friend, Tony, who owns a .50 caliber Thompson Renegade like the one I picked up and he has taken a lot of deer with his rifle. He said he uses the original 26" barrel with a patch, round ball and 80g of Pyrodex RS. He told me that if he fired a well placed shot at 75 yards or closer, the deer was DRT (Dead Right There).

I chronographed the load in my Renegade at 1553 fps at 15 feet from the muzzle. When I bought a 30" 1:66 twist round ball barrel, I chronographed the same load at 1578 fps and it is a reasonably accurate load.

 

[Armando]

My rifle is the Traditions Hawken Woodsman.
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/product/Hawken-Woodsman-.50-cal-Percussion-Select-Hardwood-Blued

.50 Caliber, Percussion
28" Octagonal Blued Barrel (pretty sure its 1:48)
Double Set Trigger
Click-Adjustable Rear Hunting Sight

 

[NorthFork]

For my 50 cal rifles, I always used a PRB and 75 to 100 grains of 2F or sometimes Pyrodex RS. Just shot until the groups were the tightest and then wrote down that combination of components. Sometimes something as simple as a patch lube change can really matter. I would pick a nice weekend with little wind and shoot at 50 yards varying the components of the load. Keep good notes. You will find an accurate load if you stick with it.

 

[Bent Sight]

NorthFork brings up a good point. I chronographed loads fired out of a .45 caliber CVA Kentucky rifle yesterday. I compared loads fired with Ox Yoke pre-lubed patches and homemade pillow ticking patches with home brew patch lube. The homemade patches fit tighter and felt almost dry. The Average Velocity with the Ox Yoke patches was 67 fps faster measured 15 feet from the muzzle.

Changing one thing can make a huge difference.

 

[vearl163]

ARE YOU PATCHES ROUND OR SQUARE? ARE THEY WHITE OR SOME OTHER COLOR? DO YOU PLAN ON LOADING PATCHES UPRIGHT OR THE OTHER SIDE FIRST.?
NEED TO KNOW BEFORE WE CAN HELP.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have seen the best accuracy from all of my rifles from tight patches saturated with TOTW mink oil.
The basic still apply though,

GET Dutch's system -
Yes it involves some work on your part, but a day shooting is better than a day working - every time.

Weigh your balls, remelt or toss the ones that are way out off of the heavy one.
Try different size balls, .005 under bore and .010 under bore.
Try different thickness patches, work your way through and find the thickness that works the best for the ball size.
Try different powders and powder weights.

When you have run the gambit of balls, powders, patches, lubes, You will find the sweet spot for that individual rifle. It has been said here so many times, every rifle has it's own tastes, find it and find happiness.

 

[Bent Sight]

I read Dutch's material and found that some people use soluble oil mixed with water in a 1:7 ratio as patch lube. I soaked precut pillow ticking patches in a 1:7 mixture of Ballistol and water, then dried them laying on a piece of screen. When I put them in an old medicine bottle, the patches felt dry. When I removed them from the bottle at the range, they felt almost dry.

Comparing store bought patches with some sort of yellow patch lube to patches made using Dutch's system yielded interesting results with my Thompson Center Renegade .50 caliber.


I used the same charge weights, unsorted Hornady round balls, the same caps, etc. The store bought patches gave me a group that was 2-1/4” W x 3-3/4” H and Dutch's almost dry patches gave me a concentric 1-3/8" W x 1-3/8" H group at 50 meters. I am convinced that if I sort the round balls by weight and wipe the bore between shots, I can do better.

I have been following the recommendations in Dutch's system one step at a time to see what the results are after changing one thing. When I ignore one of the variables he mentions, the target will look like one of the targets illustrated in Dutch's material. The system works.

 

[excess650]

I DO like TOTW mink oil as a lube, but I'm a hunter. Patches saturated with this lube will not contaminate powder and will resist rust better than most, but it may be too slippery for best accuracy. As a deer hunter, I'm not concerned as much about tack driving accuracy as a chunk gun shooter would be. To enhance accuracy with a "slick lube", I've found that increasing powder charge helps. The added velocity of the heavier powder charge flattens trajectory, but will cause more expansion at short range. Everything is a trade-off.

 

[Griz44Mag]

, but it may be too slippery for best accuracy.

I discovered just the opposite with both of the rifles I hunt with, accuracy improved, especially from that first cold shot to a very warm barrel. After getting sighted in with the last few shots from a warm barrel, the next day with a squeaky clean cold barrel the shots hit very close to the same impact point as the dirty hot barrel from the session prior. I think the key may be to not use too much mink oil.

 

[Dr5x]

Well, Bent, you skipped a step here and there.I don't recommend the 7 to 1 Ballitol to water mix.
I show you how to determine which mix is best for your rifle. A lot of folks running the experiment end up with your 7 to 1 mix but some use the 6 to 1 or even the 8 to 1 mix..

Whatever, you seem to have lucked out and your idea of drying your patching strips on a screen is brilliant.

Also we don't sort out the lead balls. we determine which is the most solid and keep all the others within one grain of it.


If you were fully engaged in my procedures you would have told me the COMPRESSED thickness of your patch material.

All in all I am pleased with the results you had from the parts of the System you used.

On a windless day I was able to get groups you could cover with a quarter at 100 yards. . 2 inches is not at all bad but 1 inch will make you amazed as it did me.

Dutch Schoultz

 

[Bent Sight]

The compressed thickness of my patch material is 0.015".

I have a lot to learn and want to move one step at a time to see how each variable affects accuracy.

Once I deplete my supply of Pyrodex powder, I plan on purchasing real black powder. A supplier that is located 90 minutes north of me carries Diamondback, Schuetzen and Wano black powder. Do you have a preference out of the three choices?

 

[Griz44Mag]

The compressed thickness of my patch material is 0.015".

I have a lot to learn and want to move one step at a time to see how each variable affects accuracy.

Once I deplete my supply of Pyrodex powder, I plan on purchasing real black powder. A supplier that is located 90 minutes north of me carries Diamondback, Schuetzen and Wano black powder. Do you have a preference out of the three choices?

For the cost of a 90 mile trip (180 if you plan on going back home) you can order on-line from PowderValleyInc, Grafs or a few others. Bet you save the cost of the hazmat on the price as well.
Let the powder come to you instead of you going to the powder.. And don't forget the caps, get them a lot cheaper on-line too.

 

[excess650]

Is Diamondback a current production/import? It WAS made in Brazil on equipment from the relocated Elephant BP factory. I have some, but it must be 2010 or 2011 production.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I never heard of Diamondback so can't comment. But, Scheutzen is a very reliable powder. You can't go wrong with that.