How to prevent this?

[Ed C.]

This is the cam or pin that the tail of the bolt rides on located on the hammer of my 1851 Navy. The spring end of the bolt has cut it away to the point where the bolt would sometimes not disengage the cylinder at half cock. I probably have about 150-200 rounds fired. After each use the gun was stripped, cleaned, and lubed with Ballistol. Maybe at that contact point grease would be better? Today I did replace the hammer and bolt and was fortunate that the repair was simply drop in with no filing or fitting needed.

 

[64Springer]

Pietta?

This is why replica revolvers should never be carried as self defense firearms.

They Are Junk.

 

[Ed C.]

Pietta?

Yes.

 

[64Springer]

Yes.

There's your answer.

Will an Uberti Hammer fit in there?

Uberti hammers aren't made from the chewing gum found under desks.

 

[Ed C.]

There's your answer.

Will an Uberti Hammer fit in there?

Uberti hammers aren't made from the chewing gum found under desks.

I don't know. If the current Pietta replacement also wears out I'll look into that. I do have 4 other revolvers, all Uberti, no problems other than the arbors which were addressed.

 

[mhb]

It is always a good idea to strip and inspect all the parts of any new (or newly acquired) reproduction firearm. The parts are usually in need of smoothing and de-burring - the spring tempered parts are often harder than the parts they interact with, and that is the likely cause of the problem you have reported.
Sharp edges and burrs on the bolt extensions/springs are almost certainly the cause of the damage - remove any burrs, round and polish the edges and contact points of the replacement parts to avoid future damage.

mhb - MIke

 

[45D]

I don't know. If the current Pietta replacement also wears out I'll look into that. I do have 4 other revolvers, all Uberti, no problems other than the arbors which were addressed.

What caused the cam to wear is a bolt spring applying far too much tension on an ill fitted bolt.
First off, the bolt arm should fall off the front of the cam and NEVER slide off the side of the cam. Sliding off the side is what happened to yours and it gets worse (not better and timing will get earlier ) as it wears. It would be best to "tune" the bolt spring, it only needs 3- 4 lbs pressure ( it probably has 5-7lbs.) Feeling the pressure of the bolt in a Ruger S.A. (pushing the bolt head down) will give you an idea.
I set the cam up with an angle that "engages" a complimentary angle on the end of the bolt arm ( that i also set up). That makes it impossible for the arm to slide off the side. That allows the bolt drop or timing to be set and maintained for basically the life of the revolver ( and yes, use grease). Which means you CAN have a revolver with the reliability of any that you want to compare it to!! I'd put any of my personal or my customers revolvers up to that challenge (i have several that i cycle every day just as a function/wear test).
The biggest point here is it is worth having you or whoever go through the revolver and set it up for the purpose of running correctly rather than hoping the factory " got it right". Knowing what correct timing is and how it happens, what causes it to change will give you the ability to make corrections before you have a failure.

Mike

 

[64Springer]

Most people aren't Pietta revolver gunsmiths.

The OP was able to remove his hammer and diagnose the problem. I applaud him. Most gun owners can't even do that.

Asking people to rip the somewhat complicated guts out of a revolver and perform delicate surgery on the parts is not going to happen.

Not putting out complete junk and forcing gun owners to buy expensive replacement parts should be the goal here.

 

[45D]

Welp, I agree with what you're saying 64Springer for the most part. In reality though, revolvers across the board are susceptible to premature failure in the parts dept. You see threads in forums all over complaining about QC and crappie parts, shoddy work . . .
These replicas we enjoy are rather nice "across the board " considering the price point. We also get in sometimes heated discussions about "known" problems and who has the best fix or how to or whatever . . . and I realize I do this daily ( 7 days a week) and I know the average Joe isn't going to do what I do . . . nor do I expect them to. But on the other hand, those willing to try, if they understand the situation and how to solve, there's all the reason needed to "splain" what the problem is, what causes it and how to fix / avoid it.

Mike

 

[45D]

The "takeaway" from these type problems with these revolvers is as old as the revolver business itself. Whether it's a brand new Colt SAA, a Freedom Arms or BFR, or a Pietta or Uberti reproduction . . . there's not one that couldn't benefit from another pair of eyes looking through it for any obvious problems or beginning of problems. Colt, FA, Magnum Research ( BFR's) have custom shops . . . that offer tuning . . .
before the customer ever gets it!!! Obviously, it's best to set one up from new
but definitely before any problems arise (avoiding parts replacement is always best!!).

Mike

 

[Crow Choker]

From what I've heard and read, Pietta and Uberti parts don't 'commiserate well' together in each other's frame's. Can't say for sure about the OP and his problem, but when getting a new or buying a used repo revolver, it pays to check the timing before any firing and after firing a good number of rounds. An ill fitting part can wreak havoc with the internals. I bought a new Uberti Open Top (1872) revolver from Cimarron Firearms (its not a percussion, but the guts all work the same as a capper)and while it fired OK, nasty peening of the cylinder just ahead of the cylinder bolt cutouts started taking place. Cause---the bolt was releasing too soon off of the cam which was causing the bolt to strike just ahead of the bolt ramps, peening the areas. What caused this was too short of a leg on the bolt. It was coming off of the cam to soon. Took the leg off of my Richards II revolver, worked fine. Called Cimarron and they sent me a new bolt, did a bit of fitting, installed, problem solved. Where or what that original bolt was for is a mystery.

Just see you posted before I did Mike (45D) and I couldn't agree more. I've seen Smiths, Colts, Rugers, Kimbers, Sigs, you name it with problems here and there. When I wore a badge, the whole stable of new Model 66 Smiths bought for department use had to have their rear sights replaced due to a defect. Told the Chief he shoulda bought Colts (I was a Colt guy, he was big into Smith and Wesson-we always slammed each other's favorite brand).

 

[64Springer]

The replica revolver producers need to get away their Price Point and build revolvers that won't prematurely fail.

If Ruger, S&W, and Colt can do it, so can Pietta and Uberti.

Build a replica that will work and keep on working, then set the price for that uncompromising quality.

People truly interested in that quality will happily pay another 150-200 for a gun that will bring them a lifetime of worry free enjoyment.

 

[Stantheman86]

I've had 3 Piettas do the exact same thing , I dropped in new hammers and so far so good

All of them were brassers but that should be irrelevant......or do the Pietta assemblers spend even less effort fitting the "cheap brass frame " revolvers...

I've put a few hundred through them with the new hammers, no problems

Still, 2-300 rounds until a major parts failure is ridiculous. That's a good week for some people .

I've made all of my Piettas into good shooters but I'm staying with Uberti for any new revolvers.

 

[SDSmlf]

The replica revolver producers need to get away their Price Point and build revolvers that won't prematurely fail.

If Ruger, S&W, and Colt can do it, so can Pietta and Uberti.

Build a replica that will work and keep on working, then set the price for that uncompromising quality.

People truly interested in that quality will happily pay another 150-200 for a gun that will bring them a lifetime of worry free enjoyment.

A Ruger in 44 caliber has a MSRP of over $1000 and will still need work. A Freedom Arms revolver is going to run over $2000 to well over $3000, depending on what you want, but will likely be very reliable. Ok, back to regular programming and Uberti and Pietta cap and ball guns. Far from perfect, but many satisfied customers who likely shoot their guns once a year if at all. $150 to $200 more isn’t going to do it while putting many potential Uberti and Pietta buyers out of the market. One has to learn how to optimize their handgun or pony up for someone else to do it.

 

[45D]

People truly interested in that quality will happily pay another 150-200 for a gun that will bring them a lifetime of worry free enjoyment.

I can't argue with that. I know a lot of folks that pay more than that for a "bullet proof" revolver !!

Mike

 

[Ed C.]

What caused the cam to wear is a bolt spring applying far too much tension on an ill fitted bolt.
First off, the bolt arm should fall off the front of the cam and NEVER slide off the side of the cam. Sliding off the side is what happened to yours and it gets worse (not better and timing will get earlier ) as it wears. It would be best to "tune" the bolt spring, it only needs 3- 4 lbs pressure ( it probably has 5-7lbs.) Feeling the pressure of the bolt in a Ruger S.A. (pushing the bolt head down) will give you an idea.
I set the cam up with an angle that "engages" a complimentary angle on the end of the bolt arm ( that i also set up). That makes it impossible for the arm to slide off the side. That allows the bolt drop or timing to be set and maintained for basically the life of the revolver ( and yes, use grease). Which means you CAN have a revolver with the reliability of any that you want to compare it to!! I'd put any of my personal or my customers revolvers up to that challenge (i have several that i cycle every day just as a function/wear test).
The biggest point here is it is worth having you or whoever go through the revolver and set it up for the purpose of running correctly rather than hoping the factory " got it right". Knowing what correct timing is and how it happens, what causes it to change will give you the ability to make corrections before you have a failure.

Mike

Thanks for all your good advice. So this evening I went back into the gun to try and see just how the bolt arm was riding on the hammer cam. The filing you mentioned is beyond my experience or expertise. Tiny bits of metal making a big difference. I did notice that the split spring on the bolt arm was not fitting tightly between the frame and the hammer face which would also aggravate a problem of slipping off the side of the cam. That bolt is made of some very hard stiff steel and I was afraid to break it but greasing a screwdriver and wedging it between the split I was finally able to widen it about .015". That gave it a nice tight fit but also meant I needed to pretty much max out on the bolt/trigger spring pressure to move the bolt. I'll see if after the next shooting session or just cycling the gun I'll be able to lighten up on that. I don't know if the arm is riding the cam as you would want to see at this point but the timing is about perfect as far as the bolt and cylinder is concerned. I hope my "fix" will not be something that leads to other problems.

 

[Ed C.]

Welp, I agree with what you're saying 64Springer for the most part. In reality though, revolvers across the board are susceptible to premature failure in the parts dept. You see threads in forums all over complaining about QC and crappie parts, shoddy work . . .
These replicas we enjoy are rather nice "across the board " considering the price point. We also get in sometimes heated discussions about "known" problems and who has the best fix or how to or whatever . . . and I realize I do this daily ( 7 days a week) and I know the average Joe isn't going to do what I do . . . nor do I expect them to. But on the other hand, those willing to try, if they understand the situation and how to solve, there's all the reason needed to "splain" what the problem is, what causes it and how to fix / avoid it.

Mike

And we are lucky to have people like yourself willing to share your knowledge to bring us novices up to speed.

 

[Erwan]

Pietta?

This is why replica revolvers should never be carried as self defense firearms.

They Are Junk.

Saw it also frequently on Uberti and Pedersoli ...
Uberti isn't what it was...

 

[45D]

And we are lucky to have people like yourself willing to share your knowledge to bring us novices up to speed.

Thanks for the kind words!
The Uberti bolt is pretty good as is from the factory. It's made very close to the originals with a thinner left arm than the right. That allows the left arm more flexibility and much less fatigue which = a longer life!
When compared to a Pietta bolt you'll notice how thick the left arm is. With it being a MIM part, it's strong but not very flexible which will, with a strong bolt spring, whittle away at the cam!
It may take a little time but you can file the left arm from the inside to thin it like the Uberti bolt, ending up with a nice bolt with a long life.
This pic is of a stock Uberti bolt along with one I've "massaged" a little bit.

This next pic shows how you can lengthen the arm by cutting it further towards the body of the bolt.

The groove continuing on to the front is for my coil spring which isn't needed with the flat.

Mike

 

[Ed C.]

Thanks for the kind words!
The Uberti bolt is pretty good as is from the factory. It's made very close to the originals with a thinner left arm than the right. That allows the left arm more flexibility and much less fatigue which = a longer life!
When compared to a Pietta bolt you'll notice how thick the left arm is. With it being a MIM part, it's strong but not very flexible which will, with a strong bolt spring, whittle away at the cam!
It may take a little time but you can file the left arm from the inside to thin it like the Uberti bolt, ending up with a nice bolt with a long life.
This pic is of a stock Uberti bolt along with one I've "massaged" a little bit.
View attachment 191473

This next pic shows how you can lengthen the arm by cutting it further towards the body of the bolt.
View attachment 191474

The groove continuing on to the front is for my coil spring which isn't needed with the flat.

Mike

Very good. I was wondering how you would ever lengthen the bolt arm should the need ever arise. I'd imagine early timing is a more common malfunction than late timing.