Hunt with clean or fouled barrel?

[roundball]

"...my first shot is typically several inches left, and all subsequent shots are in a 3" group about the center at 75 yards..."

Personal opinion:
You're having to come up with a band-aide work-around approach to try and deal with a problem you should not have.
I wouldn't have a barrel that required I had to use such an unconventional approach just to try and get all shots into the same POI, and would get the manufacturer to replace it.

Your mileage may vary...

 

[tg]

Most thicker lubes will not mess up the barrel if used in moderation, many folks use these and have no problems and ,many prefer a liquid as well, some do not like to have a water patch in the barrel all dat for fear of rust, I use a bees wax/bear oil mix and use it sparingly on the barrel side of the patch, I would take all the advice given here on working loads and various lubes and cleaning methods and start from scratch and you will find something that works without having to foul the bore before shooting unless there is something wrong with the barrel which usually does not cause such a situation, take lots of notes on any little changes made untill you find the right combo, the Dutch Shultz System may be worth your looking into also, many swear by it.

 

[bobman]

same gun same 100gr FF 530 ball but .018 patches

my groups are uniform and tiny, actually I'm am shocked at how tight they are

 

[lonehorseman]

I don't have that issue with any of my rifles, but lots of my buddies swear by a "fouling" shot. If that is all it takes to make your rifle dead-accurate, then why not! Oftentimes they will just fire a powder load before leaving home or starting through the woodswalk. Some of them will only fire the pan. I wouldn't recommend making that shot in your favorite hunting woods. I agree this issue can probably be remedied with patching, lube, or secret incantation, but at least you have found one thing that works.

 

[Bob J]

I'm using a .54 caliber percussion Lyman GPR with a .530 ball on 100 grains FFg with a .020 prelubed patch from Eastern Maine Shooting Supplies.

I used that same load in my GPR, the E. Maine pre-lubed patches did not create a sticky mess but was for all intents and purposes the same as wonder-lube. Did switch to .535 balls after 300 rounds or so. You might try .535 balls with everything else the same and see if this helps.

 

[BrownBear]

Did switch to .535 balls after 300 rounds or so. You might try .535 balls with everything else the same and see if this helps.

That's a very good suggestion. In both 50 and 54 cal GPRs I've found that a jump is required after a breakin period, whether thicker patches or larger balls. Combos that are too tight for casual use when the gun is new become quite reasonable to start after 200-300 rounds. And accuracy makes a corresponding improvement.

The changing point of impact from clean to fouled bores reported by the OP could very well be due to the fouled bore being "tighter."

 

[Hawken-Hunter]

Switching from the .530 to the .535 ball may do the trick. This is easy, so I will try this first and report back. I am just about at the 300 ball mark. Perhaps my gun is now "broken in". When I first started shooting my spent patches would be cut - and I assumed this was due to sharp edges on the lans. Now, my spent patches are not cut.

I have been at this hobby all by myself for some time now, and really enjoy reading and learning from everyone's opinions and experience.

 

[RC]

:hmm: okay..I'm not too clever sometimes..so I may be off on this, but in my venture into first shot gone poofie,,we tried upping to .495 balls in an attempt to raise shot,,did not work..but thicker patch did,,,,after thinking about it :shocked2: :redface: ..if you measure a, say..530 ball in a .020 patch..an a 535 ball in .020 patch...the increase would be minimal w/ the .535..where as a .530 rb with a .030 patch would measure way more...................right? with .30 on both sides of ball, where as ball is one size..? :wink:

 

[BrownBear]

...if you measure a, say..530 ball in a .020 patch..an a 535 ball in .020 patch...the increase would be minimal w/ the .535..where as a .530 rb with a .030 patch would measure way more...................right? with .30 on both sides of ball, where as ball is one size..? :wink:

The thicker patch is compressible while the ball is less so. But in my experience I'll take a thicker patch instead of a larger ball for loading ease, all else being equal. Problem is, in my remote location it's been tough to come up with lot of different thicknesses of patches for testing. Not unsolvable, but more of a hassle.

 

[RC]

I have a longrifle...worked with it when first switched to flint,,had a bunch of 490 an 495 rb,,an .015 an .020 patches,,,my really :haha: quick math said... .490 and .020 = .495 and .015...yup took me a minute figure out why they didn't shoot the same. :rotf:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Always clean for the first shot, but if I am going for small game, then only the first squirrel or bunny is really from a "clean barrel". I swab before loading the next shot, but the barrel isn't what I'd call clean.

LD

 

[RC]

Always clean for the first shot, but if I am going for small game, then only the first squirrel or bunny is really from a "clean barrel". I swab before loading the next shot, but the barrel isn't what I'd call clean.

LD

when we did this 50,,the first load thru clean gun is w/ a .030 patch,,after that shot, .020's shoot fine,, :thumbsup:

 

[Little Wattsy]

Two comments:
1) I never hunt with a dirty muzzleloader;
2) I always sight in for the first shot out of a clean cold barrel...that's usually the only shot we get to take.

And also IMO, something doesn't seem right for you to be experiencing that huge of a difference between a clean and fouled barrel.

YEP! :hmm:

 

[tecum-tha]

That depends on the gun. My 275 year old .65 cal rifle usually shoots the first shot about 4-5" high @65 yards, center is ok. All the other shots after swabbing in between shots with a moist patch are in one group at the point of aim @65 yards. At 100 yards with the second flip up sight, the first shot is about 6" low with the same load. Even though I "de-oil" the barrel with a denatured alcohol patch before loading, the barrel is still consistently slicker than after the first and the following shots with swapping.
Up to about the 65 yards, I put the sight low on the deer, just above the breastline behind the frontleg. A slightly higher shot produces a heart or a center double lunger for sure.
For the far shots of 100 yards, I use the flip up sight and hold the sight toward the top of the deer, hitting again around center double lunger....
I will also play with altering the sight picture for the first shot and see what it will do. I will try a thicker patch as well and try fo the right thickness by putting one or two layers of cigarette paper between the patch and the ball. That should work,too.

 

[Hawken-Hunter]

I found the solution. The problem, to review, was that my first shot was always 2"-3" left and lower than all the follow-on shots, even though I did my best to clean the barrel between shots. As a result, my originally posted the question whether it was ok to hunt with a fouled barrel. The answer was overwhelminly NO, and that something might be wrong with my gun. I tried several combinations of ball & patch size to remedy the problem - all to no avail. Recently one of my wedge pins fell off the rifle while I was hunting. So after purchasing a new wedge pin I adjusted the fit of the wedge pin in the escutcheons - to create a tighter fit. That was the solution; now my first and follow-on shots are tightly grouped. Thanks everyone for your help and encouragement.

 

[roundball]

Good deal getting it resolved...

 

[WH .50]

Glad you got it worked out!!

 

[jamesthomas]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Glad ya found and fixed the problem.!

 

[Cowboy2]

Y'all must have magic rifles. I don't own a one (centerfire, ML, whatever) that doesn't shoot to a different point of impact when cold and bare-metal clean, and some of them are certifiable long range tack-drivers. Centerfire is usually a couple of inches low, muzzle loaders tend to be considerable more. So I use fouling shots and just accept the extra cleaning as the price of entry.

 

[tg]

I have owend over 2 dozen mLs and never had one that showed enough difference between clean and dirty to make enoug difference to be an isssue. if I had such a gun I would sight it in cold and clean for a firts shot out of a barrel that is not drawing moisture and changing the viscosity of the fowling as the day goes on.What ranges have the testing of both conditions been done at?