Hunter brings loaded rifle to the Range!

[Dave Rosenthal]

Well before this afternoon, I'd thought I'd seen everything! At a private range I belong to this guy who was shooting a centerfire handgun that he cased & put in his truck, came over to the shooting bench beside me and proceeded to uncase a loaded in**ne rifle! He said he was out hunting with it weeks ago and he needed to shoot it so that he could "put it away". Imagine the look on my face when he just applies a 209 primer and BOOOOM...off goes 150 gr. of PYRO pellets behind a sabot round. And to make matters even worse, he and his friend are both cops!

I was so dumbfounded, I could barely speak. What a :youcrazy: Bozo! A 150 gr. charge in the gun and he's walking around / driving around like it's nothing!!

I think I should report him to the trustees of the club...who knows what other safety concerns this loose nut could be capable of?

What do you guys think I should do??

Still stunnnnned, Dave

 

[Firelock]

:surrender: Note; a muzzle loading firearm in most states is NOT considered loaded until it is either capped or primed :v

 

[jethro224]

:surrender: Note; a muzzle loading firearm in most states is NOT considered loaded until it is either capped or primed :v

Illinois is one of those states. Perfectly legal to drive around with it in the car so long as it's not capped or primed, hammer down, and in a case.
I've done it many times myself. Load at home then go hunting. Hunt until dark and drive home to pull the ball. Perfectly safe. No problem. Rule #1 always applys. :v

 

[BRUN]

:surrender: Note; a muzzle loading firearm in most states is NOT considered loaded until it is either capped or primed :v

Illinois is one of those states. Perfectly legal to drive around with it in the car so long as it's not capped or primed, hammer down, and in a case.
I've done it many times myself. Load at home then go hunting. Hunt until dark and drive home to pull the ball. Perfectly safe. No problem. Rule #1 always applys. :v

Same here.No cap,no prime,totaly legal in a vehical.

 

[1eyemountainmen]

Unload all firearms! I work at a hospital here in Wyoming and every year some dum#$##ss comes in shot during hunting season by a "unloaded" gun. When I went to the hunters safety course, one of the frist things the taught was every gun should be treated as a loaded one. Second thing-always check the action.

 

[roundball]

Not lobbying for one view or another, let's just toss out some food for thought:

You didn't mention he was acting in an unsafe manner which I assume you would have if he was, so I assume he was safe;

He had an unprimed muzzleloader with a main charge in the bore...many people profess on these very forums to leave main charges in their bores for days/weeks/months...then shoot them out after the season is over;

He did actually know it was still loaded which is a good thing;

He did go a firing range to safely fire it off which is a good thing;
(rather than leave it loaded in the house for months on end);
================================================

Personal similar example:
Every morning that I go hunting I load my ML in the garage...ie: for turkey hunting tomorrow morning I'll get up at 4:00am, be loading my smoothbore Flintlock in the garage around 4:30am.
I tightly seal the vent with a piece of good tape and seal the muzzle as well...no way any external ignition souce can accidently get to the main charge.

Get to my hunting spot, untape the vent, prime the piece and begin hunting...reverse the process for the drive home, and pull the load or blow it out with the air compressor...have done that for years with both caplocks and Flintlocks, and consider it far more safe than fumbling around in the dark at the side of the road trying to load or unload one that way...my .02 cents.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Frankly, the reason that most states have rules that say a ML is not considered loaded if it is not primed, capped, or whatever is because a ML with powder and ball in the barrel is really no different than a cartridge would be if you didn't put a primer in the casing. Its not going to fire.

So, I don't think what the officer did was unsafe by any means, and like some others, I actually would commend him for driving to a range to shoot out the load, rather than screw around with it in his back yard. Of course, I would prefer he simply fire off the round at the end of his hunt when he nears his car, and then clean his gun before taking it home, where he will clean it again for storage. However, the world is not perfect, and asking people to be safe is as good as it gets. I don't see where he did anything wrong, dangerous or unsafe, to himself or others. I would be, and am, much more concerned with men and women who swing barrels around without regard to where the muzzle is pointing, don't check the gun to see if its loaded when picking it up, and who engage in other unsafe practices. And it does not matter if the gun is a ML, or breechloader. If they are unsafe, I say something, politely at first, and then not so politely if they ignore me. I have made several friends over the years stopping peopel from doing something stupid when handling guns, and they always smile and say hello, even though I have long forgotten how we met the first time.

 

[jethro224]

...every year some dum#$##ss comes in shot during hunting season by a "unloaded" gun.
When I went to the hunters safety course, one of the frist things the taught was every gun should be treated as a loaded one.

Rule #1. They didn't follow it. :nono:

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I think the point is that muzzleloaders are considered unloaded unless they are capped or primed. BUT, we should always treat every firearm as if it were loaded.

That means that while it is OK to transport a M/L in that condition (just like an unloaded C/F) all the safety rules still apply. Dont point it at anybody. Treat it as if it were loaded. Keep your finger off the trigger. etc.

If rule #1 was followed nobody would end up in the ER. GW

 

[Slake]

It's kinda stupid to put an in line away loaded, you can pull the breech plug and push the load right out the back. Maybe this guy doesn't know that

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I think he uncased it and then walked in front of it to put up a target...action closed, extra caps & pellets & sabots on the bench next to the gun.

And he didn't say anything to the rest of the shooters on the line at the time...maybe a little unsafe? Club by-laws state that no one goes down range before a gun is opened-up and unloaded!

In the communist republic of NJ, a loaded magazine for a pistol or a rifle has been interpreted by the "State" to be a loaded gun. No guns are allowed to be loaded while in transport and all of the ammo has to be in a separate container from the gun!

Maybe it depends more on where you're at than whether you're a hunter? I'll have to check several thousand words of statutes on the matter to be sure. This IS NJ: our Gov. can ride without a seatbelt and tell the State Police driver it's O-K to do 91 MPH on the turnpike :shocked2: .

Still alarmed, Dave

 

[ssettle]

It's legal in PA. Been there done that except I don't own an inline.Ssettle :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

"...This IS NJ: our Gov. can ride without a seatbelt and tell the State Police driver it's O-K to do 91 MPH on the turnpike :shocked2..."

:grin: I saw that on the news... :shake:

 

[Tumblernotch]

In West Virginia you can transport a loaded but unprimed ML. However, at our club which by the way is BP only and all the other clubs I've visited, No One goes down range until all weapons are empty and leaning against the loading bench muzzle up. And the acting range officer makes sure everyone hears that the range is closed before anyone goes down range.

We did have a new member once who thought the range had been opened for firing (he left his ear muffs on and thought he heard that the range was open). I happened to be walking back from the 100 yd. line and was beside the berm behind the 50 yd target when I heard a yell. The guy was aiming just to my right. He didn't even see me at 50 yds. Boy, did that RO ream him out! But, that's another story. Main thing is, make sure you have an RO who is watching everybody, especially when someone wants to go post a target. If you don't, make sure everyone there is aware and agrees to cease fire when someone needs to do it. By the way, that new guy didn't last long.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Yeah--that's what I'm talking about! Everything is opened-up and made safe. Nobody walks in front of a "charged gun", with or without being primed!

The proper thing to do would have been to discharge the gun at the berm, without first going down range to post a target and walk in front of the closed, uncased gun!

 

[halfdan]

We did have a new member once who thought the range had been opened for firing (he left his ear muffs on and thought he heard that the range was open). I happened to be walking back from the 100 yd. line and was beside the berm behind the 50 yd target when I heard a yell. The guy was aiming just to my right. He didn't even see me at 50 yds. Boy, did that RO ream him out! But, that's another story. Main thing is, make sure you have an RO who is watching everybody, especially when someone wants to go post a target. If you don't, make sure everyone there is aware and agrees to cease fire when someone needs to do it. By the way, that new guy didn't last long.

Boy, stories like this make me glad that I am almost always alone when I shoot at my club's range. No worries about anyone's stupidity but my own.

 

[cowpoke1955]

California is like most of the other states. As long as it's not primed or loaded. I would object on your second posting. At the range I shoot at, any muzzle loader that has a main charge in the barrel and is considered hot. The line cannot be cleared until it is shot and cleared.

 

[bioprof]

Here in South Dakota, it is still legal to road hunt for small game (pheasants). Many hunters drive the roads, slam on the brakes, jump out and fire away. It's a wonder that more people don't get killed. I've heard stories from other people where hunters were driving down the road with the muzzle of a loaded shotgun sticking out the window. :shake: The funny thing is that most people don't think anything of it. Where I grew up, driving a vehicle with a loaded firearm was a no no. This state truly has a different culture than most parts of the U.S.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Several ranges I used to shoot at almost always made sure any muzzleloaders were shot before the "all clear" to go downrange.

One public/club range where I USED to shoot had some lax ranger officers who let guys fiddle around at their shooting benches instead of standing well back while others were downrange. :cursing:

Fortunately, I now shoot in places where these concerns are no longer a problem. Safety first.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have been on two ranges, one public and one private where some bozo would step up to the bench and start shooting with people pulling targets down range.

My thoughts at the time were first, those guys has never been in the military and second, SSG Smith would have beaten a GI senseless for for the same infraction at Ft Gordon in 67 when I was there.