Hunter Harassment

[2 shots]

on long island n.y. [ very populated] we have a special month of january shotgun/ m/l deer season. we have tons of deer . the public land that is open to hunting is closed to other activities during this season. but idiots still ride bikes and horses or hike through there usually dressed in all the wrong colors. when one gets hurt or killed it will be our fault. cant legally fix stupid. and yes there are those that try to mess up the hunt ,then cry about the damage the deer do to their property or cars.

 

[waksupi]

I've been harassed twice, by the same neighbor woman. Transplant from the west coast. The second time I told her about the Montana hunter harassment law, and never got bothered again.

 

[sheriff john]

First prosecution in Missouri was a woman I went to school with. She and idiot husband beat pots and pans at their property line a short distance from a neighbor's tree stand. Small fine, but it did establish precedent. The case is often cited. Judge and her father were lifelong hunting buddies, but it made no difference. Guilty. Pay the clerk.

 

[Ponderosaman]

Here’s an interesting situation that went sideways, and the hunters, while probably within their rights, would have served themselves better by packing it up and leaving. Conversely, think of the tragic situation where that Korean guy killed half that family while unknowingly hunting on their land, where involving the authorities instead of further confrontation could have saved lives. It’s probably a good idea for everyone involved to keep a cool head and try to work out a win win, but being that hunters are by definition armed, it’s probably best most of the time to avoid escalation.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/landowner-and-duck-hunter-charged/?amp

 

[Spikebuck]

... think of the tragic situation where that Korean guy killed half that family while unknowingly hunting on their land, where involving the authorities instead of further confrontation could have saved lives...

Are you referring to the Wisconsin incident back in 2004? If so, that individual was Hmong who are from Laos and Vietnam, not Korea.

Minnesota and Wisconsin have relatively large Hmong populations. Unfortunately, their start into hunting under a US game mgmt model started very poorly (I put a lot of blame on the state DNRs for not seeing an issue and requiring they first be trained in US game mgmt/hunting). In short, they trespassed everywhere, even when posted, and literally shot everything that moved, including non-game & out of season species. It was rampant and you can only imagine it if you personally witnessed it. This left a VERY bad impression of them on long time hunters who were always running into them on their private properties. In the Wisconsin incident the Hmong guy was sitting one of their treestands and was informed he was on private property and asked to leave, but refused, and it escalated.

Again, I put most of the blame on the DNRs for not putting training programs in place much earlier. You cannot expect immigrants, many who spoke no english at all, from an entirely different hunting culture to understand modern game management principles and laws.

Fortunately, over several decades now, they have learned what they needed to and the situation is far better...no different than any other hunters. I have spoken to numerous Hmong at a gun range I go to and frankly, I'd rather shoot next to them than most of the rednecks that show up violating many range rules and don't clean up after themselves. The Hmong are polite, courteous, and always clean up their target litter and empty shell casings, etc.

 

[Ponderosaman]

Are you referring to the Wisconsin incident back in 2004? If so, that individual was Hmong who are from Laos and Vietnam, not Korea.

Minnesota and Wisconsin have relatively large Hmong populations. Unfortunately, their start into hunting under a US game mgmt model started very poorly (I put a lot of blame on the state DNRs for not seeing an issue and requiring they first be trained in US game mgmt/hunting). In short, they trespassed everywhere, even when posted, and literally shot everything that moved, including non-game & out of season species. It was rampant and you can only imagine it if you personally witnessed it. This left a VERY bad impression of them on long time hunters who were always running into them on their private properties. In the Wisconsin incident the Hmong guy was sitting one of their treestands and was informed he was on private property and asked to leave, but refused, and it escalated.

Again, I put most of the blame on the DNRs for not putting training programs in place much earlier. You cannot expect immigrants, many who spoke no english at all, from an entirely different hunting culture to understand modern game management principles and laws.

Fortunately, over several decades now, they have learned what they needed to and the situation is far better...no different than any other hunters. I have spoken to numerous Hmong at a gun range I go to and frankly, I'd rather shoot next to them than most of the rednecks that show up violating many range rules and don't clean up after themselves. The Hmong are polite, courteous, and always clean up their target litter and empty shell casings, etc.

Yes, thank you for the correction. What a terrible tragedy and I believe that the family said they would have done it a lot differently if they could go back in time and that they would not have escalated (if again my memory doesn’t fail me).

 

[SOLANCO]

I have posted previously that the state (Washington) has done a pretty good job of making public - and private land available to hunters. That said, we have had several encounters with adjacent landowners who made every effort to stop or ruin hunting on property adjacent to their own. Local LEOs, including Fish and Wildlife Officers have been (mostly) supportive of hunting rights. I don't hunt as a way to engage in conflict, and while sometimes these adjacent landowners have made it more trouble than it is worth, it seems like a bad idea to allow them to "win" when the law is clearly on the side of the public (including hunters). All of the articles that I have recently read about OnX and "corner crossing" make it sound like this is a big issue all over the we

It is rural here. Part of our ethos is respect for a landowner's preferences. That said, we are a welcoming society. But while your stranger visit is welcome and a diversion? We will want to know you better before letting you hunt our ground.
Help out on the property sometime as a volunteer. Offer any special skill you have to the landowner. If you have local relatives/friends let them speak up for you. Deer population is thick here and there are some fancy specimens. But a stranger's green dollar is not, by itself, going to get him any shots at them on ground around here.
There is a tradition of groups of local guys spending opening week at hunting camps further north and west of here. But I find that has more to do with social and inherited tradition than it does with actual taking game. Sons and grandsons of the original group continuing the tradition. I like it and am, as a relative newcomer, a bit envious.

 

[Spikebuck]

... I believe that the family said ... they would not have escalated.

Note that Chai Vang was convicted of first degree intentional homicide. This was not a "heat of the moment" shooting. As I recall, Vang left then came back to their camp and starting shooting...four of the six dead shot in the back. One of the murdered was a woman. He was the ultimate escalator. I have no doubt in my mind they called him names, but that is not much of an escalation, it's common if someone won't leave your private property when told to do so.

But your original point is well taken. That's one reason I never personally confronted the bully next to our lease. I figured they'd find my lifeless corpse hanging on the gate next to the fresh deer testicles.

 

[Ponderosaman]

Note that Chai Vang was convicted of first degree intentional homicide. This was not a "heat of the moment" shooting. As I recall, Vang left then came back to their camp and starting shooting...four of the six dead shot in the back. One of the murdered was a woman. He was the ultimate escalator. I have no doubt in my mind they called him names, but that is not much of an escalation, it's common if someone won't leave your private property when told to do so.

But your original point is well taken. That's one reason I never personally confronted the bully next to our lease. I figured they'd find my lifeless corpse hanging on the gate next to the fresh deer testicles.

Here’s an article. It would seem there is some conflict concerning who shot first, though Vang was convicted, so doesn’t have much to stand on for the murders I suppose.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2004/12/03/wis-deaths-still-fresh-for-family-and-friends/

 

[Spikebuck]

Apparently no conflict in the jury's mind. Vang himself admitted he was first to shoot when he took the stand:

As described in David Whitehurst’s 2015 book, “Tree Stand Murders,” Vang raised his rifle in one smooth, continuous sweeping motion as he circled right, kneeled, and aimed at Willers, the group’s only armed person. Vang later said, “If I don’t shoot him, he would shoot me.”

 Good article that describes in gory detail the shootings and what lead up to it. There is clearly something anyone can learn from this and that is NOT to do something that might cause a situation to escalate. Vang had a history of violence and threats, despised trespass laws, bragged about poaching, etc. One never knows, especially nowadays, when they'll meet the next Chai Vang out in the woods, so be careful out there.

Deer Woods Murder: The Day a Trespasser Killed 6 Hunters

 

[BillRob]

It is rural here. Part of our ethos is respect for a landowner's preferences. That said, we are a welcoming society. But while your stranger visit is welcome and a diversion? We will want to know you better before letting you hunt our ground.
Help out on the property sometime as a volunteer. Offer any special skill you have to the landowner. If you have local relatives/friends let them speak up for you. Deer population is thick here and there are some fancy specimens. But a stranger's green dollar is not, by itself, going to get him any shots at them on ground around here.
There is a tradition of groups of local guys spending opening week at hunting camps further north and west of here. But I find that has more to do with social and inherited tradition than it does with actual taking game. Sons and grandsons of the original group continuing the tradition. I like it and am, as a relative newcomer, a bit envious.

I may have misspoke - my apoligies! I completely adhere to the ethos of respect for a landowners preference. I was writing about hunting on PUBLIC land, which we all own. The encounters that I referred to were on PUBLIC land, which was adjacent to private land. I would never expect a landowner to allow a stranger onto their land, and on those occasions when I have been granted the privilege to hunt private land, I have taken it with a huge amount of respect and gratitude!

 

[necchi]

the public land that is open to hunting is closed to other activities during this season.

but idiots still ride bikes and horses or hike through there usually dressed in all the wrong colors.

when one gets hurt or killed it will be our fault.

THAT! IS COMPLETELY FALSE, Even under ASSUMPTION!
No Sportsmen or even a Basic Ethical Hunter would/could sight and pull a trigger on anything that's not identifiable as the game target.
If a "Hunter" shoot's a human,, it's murder.(period)
Accidents happen in the field, true,, but shooting an unidentified target is not hunting

 

[45man]

The problems we have are several neighbors will not allow anyone to recover a deer if it gets on their land. I don't allow hunting on my property unless they are with me but I have informed all neighbors to enter my woods to recover a deer. It is the right thing to do.

 

[beardedhorse]

In Colorado above Steamboat Springs a group of people showed up the day before muzzle loading season opened. They got out of their cars, set up targets and using their headlights and blaring loud music, shot at the targets. We should have gotten their license plates or blocked the road in until a sheriff could be summoned. A friend scout out two nice bull elk and hiked up Wapiti Mountain in sleep in the woods to get a jump on them. He never saw them the next morning. A confrontation could have ended tragically, and cooler heads did prevail. But the scum were definitely anti hunters. There are laws in Colorado against hunter harassment and spooking game during hunting season but it was indeed the day before. Another example of stupidity are hunters needing to foul or sight in their rifles in hunting camp or blowing their elk bugles to try to locate bulls at night. There are too many hunters and too little game on public land and many a season can be ruined by stupidity or ignorance or intentional harrassment.

 

[TFoley]

View attachment 178999

Hey, ya oughtn't to have 'prettied' yerself up jest fer us!

 

[rickpa]

I heard this story years ago, it might be apocryphal but here it is. Supposedly a group of hunters here in western Pa in the Laurel Ridge area were met on opening day by a group of antis who followed them into the woods, this was before hunter harassment laws. They didn't make a lot of noise but just followed the hunters. The next day one hunter volunteered to be the "bell mare" and showed up early. He led the group into the woods far back and then set up a tree stand, the antis gathered below. The other hunters came in later and went to another area to hunt. At noon the decoy climbed down and pulled a sandwich out of his pack and began to eat lunch. The antis asked if he would lead them back to the parking area so they could get their lunches. He refused. After lunch he climbed back up into his tree stand until evening. When it began to get dark he climbed down and opened his pack and set up a small shelter half. The antis asked him what he was going to do. He told them he was going to spend the night and started a small fire. They panicked and demanded he lead them out. He pointed to a small stream and told them to follow it until it crossed the road that they were parked on. It ended up about a mile from where they were parked. After they left he went back to his truck using the way he came in...........Now this sounds too good to be true, but if it wasn't it should have been.

 

[mountainman_53223]

I do hope that the Hmong hunters have learned. My experience was when a friend and I were sighting in our rifles at the range. When all clear was called, the line started walking towards our targets and then the two Hmong guys picked up their rifles and started shooting with the rest of us downrange. I'll tell you that left an impression on me regarding them. I'm also from Wisconsin and saw the lack of regards for the law from them when it came to hunting, fishing and even catching and killing the ducks out of season on the river. Man, I hope things have changed

 

[TraderVic]

I do hope that the Hmong hunters have learned. My experience was when a friend and I were sighting in our rifles at the range. When all clear was called, the line started walking towards our targets and then the two Hmong guys picked up their rifles and started shooting with the rest of us downrange. I'll tell you that left an impression on me regarding them. I'm also from Wisconsin and saw the lack of regards for the law from them when it came to hunting, fishing and even catching and killing the ducks out of season on the river. Man, I hope things have changed

After the deer hunting fiasco mentioned, WIDNR didn't waste any time getting Hmong Safety Wardens trained and in place around WI to provide training and guidance to Hmong hunters. We've had one in the Eau Claire Regional Office for some time. I'm a recently retired hunter safety instructor (31 years).

 

[mountainman_53223]

After the deer hunting fiasco mentioned, WIDNR didn't waste any time getting Hmong Safety Wardens trained and in place around WI to provide training and guidance to Hmong hunters. We've had one in the Eau Claire Regional Office for some time. I'm a recently retired hunter safety instructor (31 years).

Great Thanks for the info

 

[Rudyard]

Hey, ya oughtn't to have 'prettied' yerself up jest fer us!

I didn't try to pretty myself up for anybody , This is typical bush and for me typical guns .This Isn't England no seasons no stupid foot pounds can't kill deer with bow or black powder !(Even the 600 Nitro made to bowl poor elephant's is de barred by this idiotic MV ,F pound rubbish in UK .)
All of these pics where taken on week long or longer hunts rarely saw a soul , I was mostly off track' bush bashing 'its called The Bower was typical of me but there are huts for trampers & hunters use ALL introduced four legged animals are deemed ' Pests ' Actually the term used is" Noxious Animals " unfortunately left wing Politicians are not on the pest lists but they deserve to be . I trust that sums it up for you .
Regards Rudyard