hunting load ?

[Dphar]

"The point-blank aiming concept is a simple definition and doesn't depend on any particular velocity. It is defined as the range at which the ball falls as far below the line of sight as it was above it at its highest, the mid-range trajectory. That means that it works for any velocity, and it doesn't matter whether you are talking about a flat trajectory or a looping one."

The more I think about it and I think for hunting usage the tragejectory must be flat enough so that anywherefrom the muzz to the sighting distance the ball falls in the kill zone of the Deer, when the same poa is used. I cannot recall being able to do this with 30 gr 3f in a .58 rifle sighted at 100 yds?

Your last paragraph gets it exactly.
Point blank is valid for a GIVEN RANGE. Point blank is the range at which no change in sight picture is needed. To kill the deer you hold in the middle and squeeze the trigger. The ball should not rise or fall out of the kill zone of the deer (or what ever game) at the maximum point blank range.
If the velocity is low the point blank may be 40-50 yards for deer.
If its high it may be 130 yards.
The fast twist, low velocity English and European rifles may have 3 leaf rear sights, a fixed bar for 50, a leaf for 75 and another even higher for 100.
An American rifle only requires one fixed sight for all these ranges and perhaps a little more. The English rifle has a very short point blank range. The American rifle has a long point blank range for a BP firearm.
THIS is the advantage of the high velocity load. Killing power is not the primary reason for a HV load. Its the ability to hit a target an unknown ranges.
A 54 caliber RB, for example, will kill deer at 800 fps. However, launching it at 800 makes for a very short point blank range. Launching it at 1800 makes it possible to easily hit a deer at a distance where the velocity has fallen to under 1000 fps.


Dan

 

[Dphar]

oops

 

[aeatwood]

+100

I have taken some heat on other forums for saying that for big bore slow twist barrels, I usually find an accurate load that is very close or right at the manufacturer's recommended maximum.

I'm told they do very well with 60-80gr of powder and whatever .50-.58 PRB they are using, and they usually shoot game at 25-50 yards. And they are absolutely correct. A deer really doesn't take that much killing, and what they do works for them.

My primary target is hogs. And you can find one of those from 200 lb (deer sized) to 1000 lb (elk sized). While the shoulder gristle is over-hyped a great deal, it is there, and it can be up to 4" thick on a big hog. And the hogs must die. You don't wait for a picture perfect shot at 50 yards. You shoot them however you see them, from the muzzle out to the longest range you can stand a reasonable chance to hit them.

The farmers and ranchers where I hunt are so tired of trapping/poisoning/shooting them that they will deliberately gut shoot them so they run off to die. They don't want to deal w/ dragging the carcasses off anymore. That bothers me from the standpoint of 1) not wanting to see any animal suffer, and 2) that is creating one hell of a disease vector from having carcasses rotting in the woods that may be eaten by other hogs.

I like hunting w/ muzzle-loaders, but to give you an idea about how serious the problem is, my OTHER hog guns are a Springfield SOCOM-16 and a Marlin 1895CB.

 

[Dphar]

A friend of mine shot and hunted with (one deer) an original S Hawken plains rifle. He said it appears to be sighted for about 160 yards. This was some years ago, its now "unavailable" being in a glass case in a museum.
But where it was used shots are often 100+ and even significantly past that. The last deer I shot was 105 offhand and no way to get closer since I was suddenly in plain sight and "made". This was in a place where getting into ML range was "easy", no crawling for 50-100 yards.
Center hold worked but had to stand motionless till the deer moved to give the right shot. Got tiring after a few minutes (hours :grin: ).
A good laser range finder has proven to be a great aid. It is easy to misjudge ranges by 100 yards on game out here and on terrain features by 500.
This is something the eastern hunter does not adequately understand. My shots are invariably spot, stalk and shoot or sneak into an area to find what is there. No place for a tree stand most of the time and structures are frowned upon on public land.
I decided not to shoot a doe but this photo required about 50 yards of low crawl and it was still 100+- to the bedded doe. Antelope have 8x vision too they say sure seems like it.

Dan

 

[George]

The more I think about it and I think for hunting usage the tragejectory must be flat enough so that anywherefrom the muzz to the sighting distance the ball falls in the kill zone of the Deer, when the same poa is used.

That's the main idea, except that the distance at which you can use the same POA and still hit within the kill zone is greater than the distance you are sighted in for. For instance, my 20 ga. smoothbore is sighted for 75 yards, but the point-blank range is 87 yards. My Hawken .54 is sighted for 100 yards, point-blank range is 115. The concept is simple and straightforward, if you spot a deer at a distance no greater than the point-blank range for your gun/load, just point at the kill zone and shoot, your ball will land in it.

Of course, the actual point-blank range for your gun depends on the MV and the distance you are sighted for. It's different for a long-range deer rifle and a short-range squirrel rifle, but the concept and mechanics are the same for both.

The kill zone on a deer is 6"-8", that of a squirrel head 1/2"-1", so it's obvious the trajectory of the gun must be tailored to suit the game, but the method is the same for them all.

It has always completely befuddled me why more people don't understand and make use of this concept. I don't know of anything which can be of more use in the average hunting situation.

Spence

 

[Stumpkiller]

I keep my .54 zeroed at 85 yards with my hunting load for that reason. 1-1/2" high at 50 yards and about 3" low at 110 yards - which is a hair further than I am likely to try. I aim middle chest of the deer and if I can tell it's a deer in my fuzzy iron sights I'm ready to shoot.

 

[tg]

I have always used my "sight in" range as my maximum range, as I am only concerned with anything from my gun to that point the extra possible yardage obtained with this method does not do anything for me with a ML for the most part, just my way of using the concept.If I should missjudge a bit I was covered but I was very consevative with range estimating

 

[aeatwood]

And there is nothing at all wrong with that. The first rule of shooting at game animals is "be certain."

Well, the first rule is probably have a gun, but you get the idea. :grin:

 

[George]

...the extra possible yardage obtained with this method does not do anything for me with a ML for the most part, just my way of using the concept.If I should missjudge a bit I was covered but I was very consevative with range estimating

Knowing that you can still hit the deer if you are a little short on your range estimate is just another way of saying the same thing, sort of by the back door. The point-blank range method is simply saying "I know the ball doesn't fall straight down once it reaches my sight-in range, it stays almost on the POA for some distance past." Knowing that can sometimes put steaks in the freezer.

I'm afraid sometimes the "formal" description of things puts people off, makes them think they are too complicated and difficult to understand, when all along it's the same thing they have been doing, just not thought about in the same terms. I can't believe there's a shooter on the board who thinks he'll miss a deer clean if he shoots at it 10 yards further than his sight-in distance. We all know the ball will hit very close to the POA for some distance past, but don't put a name to it. That's all point-blank range is about.

Spence

 

[Zoar]

My 54 caliber flintlock likes 90 grains of powder too under a patched .530 round ball. and I tried 110 grains down to 70 grains just to be sure. 90 was the sweet spot.

I would not want to stand in front of it at 80 yards. That is about as far as I am comfortable going for a "hunting shot" with iron sights and aging eyes.