Hunting sword?

[Robert Egler]

Rather than hijack the thread by Wick Ellerbe about the beautiful scabbard he made for a hunting sword bow: ), I thought I'd ask in a new thread.

What exactly is a hunting sword for? :hmm:

I sometimes carry a 1907 pattern Lee-Enfield sword-bayonet (19 inch blade) which is kind of a small hunting sword I guess, but I carry it as and use it as a machete for when I have to get through dense brush.

I doubt that's what people used to use hunting swords for.

 

[longrifle78]

Hunting swords were used for killing game.You could finish off a wounded animal or if your dogs had an animal bayed you could go in and stab it while the dogs kept it busy. It would be hard to get a clear shot at somethin with 7 or 8 dogs grabin at it from everywhere.

 

[BillinOregon]

They were also useful when employed as machetes and for personal defense/offense, being essentially hangars or cutlasses with six to eight inches less of blade. My understanding is they also were worn "in town" toward the end of the sword-carrying era by gentlemen seeking to avoid the awkwardness and weight of a full-length blade.

 

[LRB]

And also used by militia and some officers on either side of the rev war as a sign of rank, rather than carry larger swords. I am going to try and find time to make one this year. Maybe similar to that in the photo. I like the smaller swords.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Hunting swords were used for killing game.You could finish off a wounded animal or if your dogs had an animal bayed you could go in and stab it while the dogs kept it busy. It would be hard to get a clear shot at somethin with 7 or 8 dogs grabin at it from everywhere.

There are oft republished stories of tales by old-old timers who were bear hunters. Arkansas was once known as the "Bear State" because bear hunting and the selling of the by-products was an important industry for a long time.
The tale is that the hunters use dogs to bring bears to bay. Then the hunter went in for the kill with nothing more than a knife. I have a copy of one of the original stories. It has been repeated so many times over so many years it is accepted as fact. I don't believe it. The Ozark region, like others such as Appalachia, is also known as a place for story and tale telling.
Good story but I don't believe it was done that way. I believe any that tried wouldn't survive to tell the story. :shocked2:

 

[BillinOregon]

Rifleman, although some of those stories may be fiction, I'd bet some were based on fact. With a hound on each ear, one on the neck and a couple more worrying the bear's poopdeck, a fast man with a knife or hunting sword could drive it between the shoulder blades. I know of an officer in the Argentine army who makes a specialty of this on very large Russian boar -- Dr. Juan Pozzi.

 

[flintlock75]

I have been carrying a hunting sword for many years now. I have not needed to use it on game as my one shot flinter does to job cleanly. However i do hunt in country populated by large bears and occasional angry moose. While a sword is not a first choice weapon if a bear attacked i would use the gun first but i would not meekly surrender to the bear and would fight as long as i could with the sword, it may not kill it right away but once i put 20" of steel into it it would not survive long after me.as the quote goes "I killed the bear that killed me".

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I have read many stories about bear hunting in the early 1800s in this area.

They would let thier dogs go and atack the bear and wear him down. Then they would let thier favorite dogs go in to atack and to protect them as they jumped in with a knife to kill the bear. Your most trusted dogs were used as you went in.
Its some cools stuff and it really happened.

Knives were a big part of the taming of America. When you are the first person to ever be in an area and there is no park ranger to help you have to be ready. With rifles that only shot once you had to have back up.

Modern people claim that in reality that frontears people really did not carry big knives but from many hours of studying I have learned in fact they did.

The sword or knife that you are talking abou I believe was a giant dagger anywhere from 18 inches to 3 feet and they wore it across their backs in a sheith.

When your in the deep woods and a wild cat or bear was 8 feet away and you dont have time to shoot and reload then you went to your big knife across your back.

Even Wild Bill Hickok was know for killing a bear with a knife. Story is that he was attacked by a bear and his .36 cal bullets just bounced off the skull of the bear and it attacked him and was mulling him. The way he survived is he used his knife and slit the bears throth. His shoulder was disfurged for the rest of his life.

Even David in the Bible was known for killing bears and lions as a boy.

Men use to prove them selves by deeds like this.

 

[Matt85]

Hunting swords were used for killing game.You could finish off a wounded animal or if your dogs had an animal bayed you could go in and stab it while the dogs kept it busy. It would be hard to get a clear shot at somethin with 7 or 8 dogs grabin at it from everywhere.

ive heard that durring the 17th century is was popular to finish a wounded animal with a sword.

in modern times i would see a pistol as a better backup. in some places its illegal to dispatch an animal with a blade (WA state).

-matt

 

[Rev_William]

WA must have chaanged we used to use our knives all the time. Especially in archery season when you were not allowed a firearm in the field even as back up if you were hunting bear.

 

[Supercracker]

Rifleman, although some of those stories may be fiction, I'd bet some were based on fact. With a hound on each ear, one on the neck and a couple more worrying the bear's poopdeck, a fast man with a knife or hunting sword could drive it between the shoulder blades. I know of an officer in the Argentine army who makes a specialty of this on very large Russian boar -- Dr. Juan Pozzi.

I have seen, with boar, that if you don't finish it fairly quickly and the dogs have them bayed and/or caught good, they'll totally exhaust themselves to the point they can barely fight. I imagine a bear would not be that different. You'd just probably go through a lot more dogs. :shocked2:

 

[pargent]

The mainly well off carried a hunting sword as a status symble,to dispatch game that wasn't dead, one had to be well off to hunt for something to do, these same people then carried their hunting swords when serving in the military, it set them above the lesser officers who could only afford to carry a pattern sword .A wealthy officer was likely to leave his elegant smallsword in his quarters and carry his hunting sword into the field .

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Let's not confuse the hunting sword, with the gentleman's short sword, or the officer's sword.

They are not the same things, and back in their day, they were recognised as such.

The hunting sword was indeed to dispatch a large, wounded animal. They were originally longer than any butcher knife of their time. Normally they were straight bladed, for thrusting, and the smallest would have a blade of say 17", with many as long as 22"-24". Shorter knives with similar hilts to the hunting swords, appeared in the 19th century and into the 20th century..., these are hunting daggers.

A simple cross guard was all that was normally present on a hunting sword, to prevent the hand from moving forward onto the blade when a thrust was made. Sometimes a chain went from one of the tips of the guard to the pommel. Sometimes the guard was S shaped

The Germans seem to have favored the shell cover/guard for the sheath, and early forms of this sword often had a smaller knife for butchering and skinning the slain animal. The French seem to have employed some hunting swords with a curved blade. They are not very robust and are not similar to a hangar or a saber.

Jaegers in Germany, who were not from the gentry, carried these swords along with their rifles. When serving in the army, as the American riflemen were to carry a 'hawk, the German Jaegers were to carry their hunting swords.

When the AWI began, many American militia officers, and some regular officers, only owned a hunting sword, and so employed those for "officer swords". Some officers carried infantry "hangars". These are not hunting swords, and although they were not carried by privates by the AWI, they were often carried by sergeants as well as officers.

The gentleman's short sword was very different from both the hangar and the hunting sword, with a complicated hilt, and complicated techniques for use for self defense. Extremely quick, and quite deadly, they were thrusting weapons. They were acceptable as an officer's sword. The same hilt with a longer blade was normally the "officer's sword".

LD

 

[Coot]

Well explained.

 

[pargent]

I know my swords

 

[Elnathan]

The sword or knife that you are talking abou I believe was a giant dagger anywhere from 18 inches to 3 feet and they wore it across their backs in a sheith.

Um, sources? Outside of Hollywood and fantasy games, the only folks that ever used a sheath on the back the way you describe were the Burmese, I think. Some really big swords (no-dachi, perhaps the Rennaisance-era two handers) were packed on the back while on the road, but the harness would have to be taken off before the sword was drawn - it is physically impossible to draw anything but a pretty short blade from a sheath on the back.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Hunting Swords I don't know. Hounds I do (somewhat) In almost every case where I have seen tree'd animals shot the bulk of the pack will attack any animal that hits the ground.

If you were in the woods and say, shot a Mt' Lion who fell but was not killed, you would need to watch your tired dogs rush in and overwhelm the cat, then unable to finish it quickly the dogs start to lose the tide of the rush, and maybe one is eviscerated. All while you reload. Or you rush in behind the dogs & stick that blade into the cat before the tide turns. Both suck

But I have known hounds men do some crazy stuff to finish a cat or bear. It was Blain or Cap Atwood here in western Colo. That jumped 10 feet down to a ledge to end a lion that was fighting dogs The ledge was under hung and he could see about 3 feet of it. if he had missed his next stop was about 80 feet down.

 

[George]

Go to this link, select "Swords" from the categories at the top, then scroll down and look at lots 101-109. Click on the thumbnail for a larger view.
http://www.cottoneauctions.com/oldsite/old/TomWnuck/Price Results.htm

This is auction results from the estate of Tom Wnuck, a premier collection of 18th century items.

Spence

 

[suzkat]

Hunting game from 1750 to 1800 in Pennsylvania I might be tempted to finish the game with a knife rather than draw the attention of nearby Indians with a rifle shot. At least that's how Alan Eckert says it was done.

 

[George]

Don't know if this was a hunting sword, but it was used like one.

"Early Travels in the Tennessee Country, 1540-1800", Johnson City, The Watauga Press, 1928, an excerpt from John Lipscomb's Journal

This passage is the entry for June 30, 1784, and Lipscomb and his fellow travelers are crossing what is known as The Barrens in southwestern Kentucky.

"Proceeded on the Journey; came to the dripping spring; got brackfast. Colo. Robertson and Cloud two brother travelers left us and hurryed on the Journey: we took it at our Leisure; came on Crossed Bigg Barron river. Then as we came down the river Wm. Roberts and Toney went with their guns a little off from the company where they saw four deer drinking or moving in the river, the opposite side; they both prepared for the attack, but Roberts being very expirt in taking sight made the first attack on a two snagged buck and wounded him so very bad that the buck could not retreat. Roberts anxiety would not let him wait for the buck to die of the wound he had given him first, but run full drive in the river never stopping for the water, and attacked the buck with so much spirit sword in hand and put him to death. James Cryer to get to Roberts assistance run to the bank of the river and fell in all over and got to the deer. Toney also got to the deer to assist Roberts, but Roberts put him to death singing all the time (O you little deer, who made your breeches; mammy cut them out & dady sowed the stiches, dady sowed the stiches). We fared sumptiously on the little buck that night; Staid all night near the river in the Barrons; 23 miles."

Spence