I couldn't find a forum that matched this perfectly but this is close enough.

[muzzleloadingat18]

I have a theory on screened vs picked powder. I think that because screened powder is so fluffy and light it burns faster in a shorter barrel providing better velocity. I'm talking strictly on cap and ball revolvers that are limited to cylinder space. Is there any historical context to imply that screened powder might actually be more powerful. It's against the forum rules to talk about Diy powder I want this to strictly be about historical context. Unless anyone has experience with off the shelf screened powder. I love this forum and I really don't want to get banned but I know I'm playing with fire. But some of the shelf screened powder I used provided more recoil and snap than pyrodex. 40gn of pyrodex and a 160gn wadcutter. I shot the off the shelf screened powder it was a full chamber of powder once the wadcutter was compressed it had about a 1/5 in gap to fill with wax. Both loads were as much powder as you can fit and seat a projectile. I think the off the shelf screened powder burned faster and used the short 5.5in barrel more efficiently and got better velocity.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

The smaller the powder granual, the faster the combustion due to the increased surface area, i.e., which is why one often reads that 3Fg produces about 10% more energy than 2Fg of the same powdah brand.

Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what you meant by 'picked' powder ...

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

The smaller the powder granual, the faster the combustion due to the increased surface area, i.e., which is why one often reads that 3Fg produces about 10% more energy than 2Fg of the same powdah brand.

Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what you meant by 'picked' powder ...

screened powder vs pucked. My apologies didn't mean picked. I'm talking about screened vs corned.

 

[hawkeye2]

I believe powder is corned, broken up and then screened.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Vs screened powder. My apologies didn't mean picked. I'm talking about screened vs corned.

Screened vs pucked. Auto correct and being hung over sorry

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

I believe powder is corned, broken up and then screened.

There is 2 ways. Screening and pucking. Screened powder is not compressed so it weighs less than pucked per volume. Pucked powder is compressed to be dense enough that 100gn by volume=100gn by weight. Everyone assumes that pucked is better but I'm not sure it is.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

My running theory is that because screened powder is less dense it burns faster. This is because it is fluffier and has less density to burn. It could also be due to the powder getting broken up when seating the projectile and that might cause the noticable difference in powder.

 

[TobJohn]

Do you mean medieval serpentine powder?

 

[hawkeye2]

OK, I think I see what you are saying. Screened is what you buy in a can and pucked is powder compressed into pellets that you load. Did I get that right?

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

OK, I think I see what you rare saying. Screened is what you buy in a can and pucked is powder compressed into pellets that you load. Did I get that right?

No screened is uncompressed and the most common way for someone to make their own powder. It's against the rules for us to talk about home made powder so for all intensive purposes I'm referring to it as store boght screened powder. 99.99999% of powder you buy is pucked.

 

[Blackpowderart]

That's a stupid rule....that's one of
The main aspects of muzzleloading

 

[hawkeye2]

I think I see my confusion. Commercial powder is broken up and then run through various sized screens to sort it into the different sizes (f number) and I thought that's what you meant by screened powder and now I see your are mainly discussing homemade powder. I made that type powder circa 1955 with my Gilbert chemistry set.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Yeah, I too was being confused with what was being meant, versus what was being stated ...

I don't make my own, so all that I can add is that historically:

Serpentine Powder - The earliest gunpowder was made by grinding the ingredients separately and mixing them together dry. This was known as serpentine. The behavior of serpentine was highly variable, depending on a number of factors that were difficult to predict and control. If packed too tightly and not confined, a charge of serpentine might fizzle; conversely, it might develop internal cracks and detonate. When subjected to vibration, as when being transported by wagon, the components of serpentine separated into layers according to relative density, the sulfur settling to the bottom and the charcoal rising to the top. Remixing at the battery was necessary to maintain the proper proportions - an inconvenient and hazardous procedure producing clouds of noxious and potentially explosive dust.

Corned Powder - Shortly after 1400, smiths learned to combine the ingredients of gunpowder in water and grind them together as a slurry. This was a significant improvement in several respects. Wet incorporation was more complete and uniform than dry mixing, the process “froze” the components permanently into a stable grain matrix so that separation was no longer a problem, and wet slurry could be ground in large quantities by water-driven mills with little danger of explosion. The use of waterpower also sharply reduced cost.

After grinding, the slurry was dried in a sheet or cake. It was then processed in stamping mills, which typically used hydraulically tripped wooden hammers to break the sheet into grains. After being tumbled to wear the sharp edges off the grains and impart a glaze to their surface, they were sieved. The grain size varied from coarse - about the size of grains of wheat or corn (hence the name corned powder) - to extremely fine. Powder too fine to be used was reincorporated into the slurry for reprocessing. Corned powder burned more uniformly and rapidly than serpentine; the result was a stronger powder that rendered many older guns dangerous.

 

[TobJohn]

Yeah, I too was being confused with what was being meant, versus what was being stated ...

I don't make my own, so all that I can add is that historically:

Serpentine Powder - The earliest gunpowder was made by grinding the ingredients separately and mixing them together dry. This was known as serpentine. The behavior of serpentine was highly variable, depending on a number of factors that were difficult to predict and control. If packed too tightly and not confined, a charge of serpentine might fizzle; conversely, it might develop internal cracks and detonate. When subjected to vibration, as when being transported by wagon, the components of serpentine separated into layers according to relative density, the sulfur settling to the bottom and the charcoal rising to the top. Remixing at the battery was necessary to maintain the proper proportions - an inconvenient and hazardous procedure producing clouds of noxious and potentially explosive dust.

Corned Powder - Shortly after 1400, smiths learned to combine the ingredients of gunpowder in water and grind them together as a slurry. This was a significant improvement in several respects. Wet incorporation was more complete and uniform than dry mixing, the process “froze” the components permanently into a stable grain matrix so that separation was no longer a problem, and wet slurry could be ground in large quantities by water-driven mills with little danger of explosion. The use of waterpower also sharply reduced cost.

After grinding, the slurry was dried in a sheet or cake. It was then processed in stamping mills, which typically used hydraulically tripped wooden hammers to break the sheet into grains. After being tumbled to wear the sharp edges off the grains and impart a glaze to their surface, they were sieved. The grain size varied from coarse - about the size of grains of wheat or corn (hence the name corned powder) - to extremely fine. Powder too fine to be used was reincorporated into the slurry for reprocessing. Corned powder burned more uniformly and rapidly than serpentine; the result was a stronger powder that rendered many older guns dangerous.

Great summary! Sources are also a little contradictory on how best to load serpentine powder. It seems that the best method was a sub calibre chamber to pack the serpentine powder, but with some extra space left to allow the powder to be lifted and the flame to travel between the particle.

If I remember correctly, mixed serpentine powder is also more hydroscopic than corned powder, which was another reason for its transportation in separate componentes.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

My experience is based from a hand loaders perspective. Light fluffy powder burns faster. So I am curious if a denser black powder is actually any better.

 

[springfield art]

Just use regular available powder and don't lose any sleep over it!

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Just use regular available powder and don't lose any sleep over it!

Im not losing sleep over it but if the screened is getting better velocity and cost 5$ a pound it's hard to argue with

 

[azmntman]

Well, either way, yer hung over and need the sleep, so go back to bed now and when you wake it will hit you which is correct! Then test it and advise.

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

Simple screened powder begins as serpentine, with the additional step of being screened for size and packaged as is. it is noticelably LESS DENSE than commercial corned powder. Virtually all of this simple screened propellant is made by hobbyists and not available commercially.
Corned powder varies from simple screened powder by its additional processes of being wetted and then compressed into a die under tons of pressure. forming a puck-like cake. Once the 'pucks' are properly dried they're broken up and screened into various size granules before packaging.
The important take away is that corned powder is MORE dense and therefore heavier per a given capacity volume-wise. It burns a bit slower for comparable granulations, BUT has more energy due to the increased density. It's a slippery slope of trade offs, and sometimes the screened serpentine will outperform the other stuff, but its not the normal outcome!

 

[russellshaffer]

Do a search for the "cast boolits" forum. Yes, that is the spelling. They have a large powder making section.