I finally started my golden age Lancaster build.

[megasupermagnum]

I think you've taken to using inletting black in a unique direction. Most of us inlet the part to be inletted, not the whole stock. But whatever works I guess.

If you even stopped to read for 15 seconds you would know it is because I got it on my hands. And if you had read for 30 seconds you would know it isn't that dark, it looks like that in pictures because of the flash.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Hi,
I urge you not use either of those products rather use Acra Glas from Brownells. It can be left clear or tinted, stays liquid for a long time as resin and separate hardener, can be thinned with acetone, and most important of all, releases with heat. It is far better for long barreled muzzleloaders than any other product. You only need a varnish thin coat to strengthen the barrel channel unless your inletting is sloppy. A coat of paste wax on the barrel is all you need for a release agent although a heat gun helps to remove the barrel.

dave

Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm going to pass. I've used Acraglass gel before, but I did not like that it took so long to harden, which is why you state you like it. Maybe it would work better for something that requires a lot of setup, say bedding an M14, but in this case I'm going to smear some epoxy in the channel, and plop a barrel in, finish by cleaning up what squirts out. I really like Devcon, it starts as a putty, and thickens even more without taking too long. I've never used Marine-Tex, but a lot of guys seem to like it for the same reasons as Devcon, plus I called and the local hardware store has it. That and it is pretty cheap. I want something thick, as my stock has a hole into the the lock area. I plan to back it with some painters tape, but I still want something that is reasonably thick and hardens quickly. I've never had a problem getting any bedding to release. I've tried a number of things for a release agent, and they all seem to work. I've always got Snoseal somewhere, so I usually use that, and it is nice because it fills in any holes if you have them.

I am not concerned about getting this to release, as I only intend to bed the tang and first few inches of barrel, just shy of the first lug. I only want to make sure this thin area of the stock is as supported as I can possibly get it, and I figure a perfect fit never hurts accuracy either. Is there some reason I would want to bed the entire length of the stock? I wasn't too careful in the middle area, so I'm sure there is some gaps, but the tail end, and the nose end of the barrel are a good snug fit.

 

[D.Summers]

Huh. Looks like the black is pretty evenly applied over the whole stock, as though you were using it in an opposite way it was intended to be used. I believe that's what Sidney was referring to.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
No, I use Acra Glas (not the gel) because it does a fine job, smooths nicely and thinly and does not look like somebody lined the barrel channel with tar, Bondo or chocolate icing. You misinterpreted my statement about it staying liquid for a long time. I was referring to shelf life. It hardens in 4-8 hours depending on temp and humidity.
dave

 

[Rudall]

If you even stopped to read for 15 seconds you would know it is because I got it on my hands. And if you had read for 30 seconds you would know it isn't that dark, it looks like that in pictures because of the flash.

I think that Sidney Smith’s post was what is commonly referred to as ‘humour’.
After you somehow managed to get the inletting black all over your hands, why didn’t you simply wash them before caressing the entire stock?

 

[RB POWELL]

For some reason I am not getting the pictures... I'm remote now. Maybe that is my problem.

 

[LawrenceA]

I think what @dave_person and you are using the bedding compound for are quite different.
You want it to re inforce and support the breach. Dave uses it to reinforce the flimsy forend and by using a very thin liquid it is essentially invisible but strengthens the forend significantly when set.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Yes, there is good reason to apply a thin coat of Acra Glas all the way up the channel because if you build the gun correctly, the barrel walls on the sides can be extremely thin. The photos below show several guns with the last 2 of an original English fowler from the 1760s.

AcraGlas can be thickened as much as you like with fiberglass flock or thinned to a consistency of varnish. A thin coat will strengthen the barrel walls 3-10 fold over no coating, something I tested and measured.

dave

 

[Mulemauler]

I go along with Dave. I've done restorations on dozens of old originals and many have forearms so thin they will flex without the support of the barrel. I brush on a thin coat to add some strength and waterproof the channel.

 

[Sidney Smith]

If you even stopped to read for 15 seconds you would know it is because I got it on my hands. And if you had read for 30 seconds you would know it isn't that dark, it looks like that in pictures because of the flash.

I did read your whole posts. Getting inletting black on your hands would not cause the entire outside of the stock to be blackened. It's evident from your barrel channel that you've coated the whole outside of the stock with inletting black, and for what reason, is your intentions alone. Don't assume I didn't read your posts in their entirety. Seems to me you're upset because a few of us have questioned your methods. It's your gun dip in in black paint for all I care, it's not the way to do it but again it's your gun.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Holy cow, I don't know why everyone is so fixated on some black ink. Here, I went to the garage and took a picture without flash. There is some black around the lock area from my hands, and some smudges around the other parts of the stock from my dusty or dirty bench. Now can we please criticize my craftsmanship instead of my hygiene?

I should not have been so short Sidney Smith, you did no wrong. I want to be 100% clear, I did NOT coat any wood with anything black on purpose. Any black I used was on the part, and I got some on my hands. After whatever it's been, say 12 hours of work, it tends to get around.

@dave_person , since this will be shaped into a thin golden-age rifle, I believe I'll take your advice and bed the entire stock. I don't see what it could hurt, so why not?

 

[megasupermagnum]

Well, no-go on the Marine-Tex. The hardware store I talked to had sold it before I got there yesterday. I checked another hardware store that said they had it, and it was actually JB weld marine. Oh well, I'll order it online, and hopefully here by next weekend.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I only have a mini update today, hopefully a picture tomorrow. I had intended to bed the barrel this week, but got swamped with work and other tasks. I went to do it yesterday, and realized I had not accounted for the dovetails on the bottom of the barrel for the lugs. I then bought some putty. Finally today I put putty in the dovetails, and the gaps for the breech plug. I hope @dave_person doesn't think I ignored his advice, but I ended up stopping at a boat store of all places for something else, and they had Marine Tex. I did take your advice with putty, and used it to block the gap to the lock area. I then bedded the entire stock from tang to muzzle. Tomorrow I'll pull the barrel out, and see how it looks.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Update today, I pulled the barrel with no problems. The tang, and breech end up to about 12" of the barrel is bedded beautifully. The muzzle end and back about 6" are also bedded beautifully. The middle section has some spots here and there that were not touched, apparently I did not add enough bedding to that area. Functionally I think it would be fine, but I'm going to go back and bed only this center section just for good measure.

Other than that mistake, this Marine Tex works really well, it is just like Devcon. The main difference is the hardener is a liquid, and when mixed, they actually start smoking a little at first. It is plenty thick, so when you apply it, it stays where you want it. I have no idea how it would hold up to thousands of rounds to modern rifle standards, but it works great for muzzleloaders.

 

[excess650]

Hi,
No, I use Acra Glas (not the gel) because it does a fine job, smooths nicely and thinly and does not look like somebody lined the barrel channel with tar, Bondo or chocolate icing. You misinterpreted my statement about it staying liquid for a long time. I was referring to shelf life. It hardens in 4-8 hours depending on temp and humidity.
dave

Dave,
Are you adding floc to the Acraglas or just using the resin+hardener?

 

[pooch156]

I did read your whole posts. Getting inletting black on your hands would not cause the entire outside of the stock to be blackened. It's evident from your barrel channel that you've coated the whole outside of the stock with inletting black, and for what reason, is your intentions alone. Don't assume I didn't read your posts in their entirety. Seems to me you're upset because a few of us have questioned your methods. It's your gun dip in in black paint for all I care, it's not the way to do it but again it's your gun.

Holy cow, I don't know why everyone is so fixated on some black ink. Here, I went to the garage and took a picture without flash. There is some black around the lock area from my hands, and some smudges around the other parts of the stock from my dusty or dirty bench. Now can we please criticize my craftsmanship instead of my hygiene?

I should not have been so short Sidney Smith, you did no wrong. I want to be 100% clear, I did NOT coat any wood with anything black on purpose. Any black I used was on the part, and I got some on my hands. After whatever it's been, say 12 hours of work, it tends to get around.

@dave_person , since this will be shaped into a thin golden-age rifle, I believe I'll take your advice and bed the entire stock. I don't see what it could hurt, so why not?

It never ceases to amaze me that there are those (for whatever reason) that will hijack a thread and turn it into a pi**ing contest. What in "H" was the point of or better yet, "motive" for harassing you in your use of inletting black? Even after you explained to Sydney as to the why's & how's of how the inletting black came to be on the stock, and also the issue with the flash vs. no flash, he basically called you a liar. Sydney, from the onset was fully aware of what his motives were when saying what he said. The embodiment of cynicism and sarcasm. Don't get me wrong, I love humor, but this was just being mean. This is a good thread, it really is. It has prompted me to bed my .36 cal. barrel in my SMR/Tennessee rifle that I am building. Keep us posted on your build!

 

[dave_person]

Dave,
Are you adding floc to the Acraglas or just using the resin+hardener?

Hi,
Yes, when I need it thick to fill space and no, when I want it runny to use as epoxy glue. When I bed a barrel, I use floc to thicken and strengthen it. However, I don't too much for bedding because I am using the Acra Glas to seal the channel and strengthen the side walls not to fill space. I actually have to scrape a little space in my barrel channel inlets to accommodate the bedding.

dave

 

[pooch156]

It’s really hard to see inletting black when the whole stock is covered with it.
A very small amount is all that’s needed. An old tooth brush, or solder paste brush, and dabbed on will work well.
Sounds like you need to use a lot less, and keep a rag around to wipe your hands off.
That jar should last for a dozen guns.

I use an acid brush and sort of stab it on. That stuff can go everywhere even with being very careful.

 

[Trot]

Hey Megasupermagnum, just wondering how your project is coming along!

 

[megasupermagnum]

I'm still in the same spot. Stock and tang is bedded. It's ready for the triggers when I get to it. I baited for bear all of August, then shot one a couple weeks back. I'm goose hunting this weekend, waterfowl hunting for the next month, deer the first week of November in MN, then another week of waterfowl, then a fall turkey trip the black hills, Thanksgiving, then deer hunting in SD, finally ending mid December with an elk hunt in Wyoming.

To put it mildly, I'm booked until after Christmas. I plan on working on this rifle on and off during the waterfowl season. I haven't completely ruled out using this for deer hunting this year yet, but it's going to take some work.