I have a conflict in information and would like an opinion

[Grey Hawk]

I have a .50 GPR

In the Maximum Loading portion of the Lyman Handbook that came with my rifle. The Max for a .50 Caliber (they use .495 or can sub .490) is 110 grains 2f
In the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook and Loading Manual they say .490 can go up to 120 grains of 2f.

I know it's only 10 grains difference, but 10gr IS 10gr.

In this case which book is better to use or regardless stick with the lower.

Or call the Lyman CS office on Monday?

Grey Hawk

 

[rabjr]

Chances are your book that came with gun and states the lower max charge is newer than the other book? In this sue happy country of ours this is just a way to cover their butts.

 

[Bob Gular]

Anything over 80 grains is wasted on a .50 unless you like seeing a fireball at the muzzle. IMHO both the published maximums are a waste of expensive powder.
Just a couple sparks from this side of the fire.

 

[Tkendrick]

Anything over 80 grains is wasted on a .50

Exactly!

 

[tg]

The guys above hit it pretty squarely on the head, rarely is the maz loasd the most accurate one and it is not often that the energy created by the max load is needed for the type of game we typical hunt. I used to use 70-80 gr. of 3f in my LGP in .50 and .54

 

[Grey Hawk]

I have only loaded up to 70grains of 2f since the energy is 390 vs 427 with 90 grains. A difference of 20 grains powder and an increase of only 47,lbs energy. That's my deer load I have worked up......But I was wondering about an Elk Load.
That's why the question, the difference is only 474 vs 502 in energy (28, lbs) with only 10 grains, not a big change in Energy or speed for that matter.

What is that qoute ______of demenishing(sp)returns

Grey Hawk

 

[ronrryan]

I was young once and used to memorize ballistics tables, keep them near the bed and the crapper so I could read up, blah blah. Then I finally realized that the greatest deer hunter I knew used to pussyfoot around with a pocketful of tags (landowner and agricultural permits, etc) and pot the deer with a battered Ruger .44 carbine we called "the popgun" that his kids gave him one Christmas. If you stacked up all the deer he murdered and ate over the years, it would be one hell of a mound. I stopped reading ballistics tables and started learning to hunt instead. BUT that was all in thick woods. Good smoke, Ron in FL

 

I was young once and used to memorize ballistics tables, keep them near the bed and the crapper so I could read up, blah blah. Then I finally realized that the greatest deer hunter I knew used to pussyfoot around with a pocketful of tags (landowner and agricultural permits, etc) and pot the deer with a battered Ruger .44 carbine we called "the popgun" that his kids gave him one Christmas. If you stacked up all the deer he murdered and ate over the years, it would be one hell of a mound. I stopped reading ballistics tables and started learning to hunt instead. BUT that was all in thick woods. Good smoke, Ron in FL

Excellent post. Your most accurate load is your "best load". Hitting your mark with a .50 caliber will kill the animal.

All the muzzle energy, foot pounds and velocity are irrelevant. That stuff is for tech-weenies. :haha: IMO

 

[Little Wattsy]

Anything over 80 grains is wasted on a .50

Exactly!

I dont know that I agree with this exactly BUT....MOST important is accuracy. Try starting at 70 grain and working up to 100 in 5 grain intervals and see what gives you the best 25 yard group. If you can get quarter size groups then THAT is where you want to be. :wink:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I shoot a .490 cal ball out of my TC Hawken. I have shot up to 110 gr, but there was no benefit to the extra powder for me. I would stick with a max of 70-80 gr. As has been said, shoot the most accurate load for your rifle. And first and foremost, shot placement will make all the difference in the world.

 

[longcruise]

Your most accurate load is your "best load". Hitting your mark with a .50 caliber will kill the animal.

Well, he is talking about elk and his most accurate load could end up being 45 or 50 grains, sooo. . . . . . Maybe a bit light?

 

[Keppy]

Personally I like the Davenport formula. I use it on all my rifles and it works very well for me. I agree Max loads are not always best. Your barrel has a max amount of powder it can burn efficiently. But more powder makes for a good conversation I guess :hmm: .

 

[mykeal]

Your most accurate load is your "best load". Hitting your mark with a .50 caliber will kill the animal.

Well, he is talking about elk and his most accurate load could end up being 45 or 50 grains, sooo. . . . . . Maybe a bit light?

Has that ever happened with a GPR?

 

[Swampman]

I'd be using 3F.

 

[shootemup]

Hi Grey Hawk,

Will your .50 handle 100 grains without stripping the rifling? I've never had a .50 that wanted that much powder with a roundball.

My normal hunting load for .50's is 70 grains of 3f.

:hatsoff:
Spot

 

[Zonie]

The thing a person needs to remember when they look at the book that came with their rifle/pistol is it was written by the designers (and lawyers) of the gun.

The book that was written by the Lyman Company called "Black Powder Handbook and Reloading Manual" was based on the results of firing loads in a test barrel .

Usually these test barrels are not some barrel they unscrewed off of a gun bought down the street at Ed's Gun Shop.
They are precision made barrels which have large outside diameters that are controlled very accurately.
They then have special stress gauges attached to them at various points to measure the internal pressures.
My point is that these barrels are totally capable of being charged with tremendous amounts of powder and lead safely.

The engineers look at the data and decide what is a safe amount of pressure for a stopping point based on what are people likely to own.

Just because they stopped at 120 grains does not mean that 120 grains is safe in YOUR gun.
Follow the makers guide unless it seems to far from what is normally used by many others in the same gun.

For example, I know of a maker of a .44 Cap & Ball pistol that recommends limiting the maximum powder load to 17 grains of 3Fg powder.
While this load is no doubt safe, the original guns which were made from poorer quality steel were commonly loaded with 28 grains of 3Fg powder.
Tens of thousands of people have had no problems at all loading their .44 C&B pistols with 28 grains of powder so in this case it looks like the Lawyers had more to say about the safe load than the designers did.

Even after saying that, I still hold to the idea that the manufacturer's manual should be followed rather than some general test book like Lymans Black Powder Handbook.

 

[Grey Hawk]

I am satisfied with hitting the target at 25/50 and at 100 yards. The question is while punching paper or hitting a metal target is one thing. The entent is to kill the Elk, not piss it off. The ballistics discussed are from the books, and not personal Chronograph data.

Therefore I can shoot and hit and adjust ball to powder to bullseye...BUT....penetration and Energy are very important as is the most important Accuracy.

That said the qoute was "the point of deminishing returns" So far 70 - 80 grains seem to be the favorite load...atleast for deer. Can I go more...sure but why. Can I go lower..yes...but again what do I gain or lose.

Now for Elk, I might up to 90-100 to have the needed Energy, The proof will be in the pudding come ML season in CO this year...provided I get my tag.

Grey Hawk

 

[Grey Hawk]

Thanks for the information and everybody elses as well. Thats what I like about the forum....SO much info at the fingertips

Thanks to all. :thumbsup:

Grey Hawk

 

[JackAubrey]

Mr.Greyhawk,one could use a conical/maxi style bullet,provided your rifling twist would stabilize it and gain added foot/pounds.A slow rate of twist is more conducive to a PRB whereas a faster rate of twist would lend itself to stabilizing the conical/maxi style bullet.I have a GPR in 50 calibre w/ the 1 in 60 RB barrel.I have acceptable accuracy with a .490 ball and 90-100 grains of 2f Goex.I found this posting to be very interesting.I may need to break out my rifle and do some 70 grain groupings and penetration tests.I am all for conserving powder and am quite familiar w/ the law of diminishing returns.Best regards,JA

 

[PreglerD]

I have a .50 GPR

In the Maximum Loading portion of the Lyman Handbook that came with my rifle. The Max for a .50 Caliber (they use .495 or can sub .490) is 110 grains 2f
In the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook and Loading Manual they say .490 can go up to 120 grains of 2f.

I know it's only 10 grains difference, but 10gr IS 10gr.

In this case which book is better to use or regardless stick with the lower.

Or call the Lyman CS office on Monday?

Grey Hawk

Hello from Germany,

these Lyman GPR are built by Investarm/Italy and have a C.I.P. proofed shooting. So by CIP you can use 120 grs BP even with a conical. This is the charge also allowd by german gun proofing law. The charges ruled there are all live tested by the german gunproofing authorities. For example you are allowed to use a .54 cal ML with 132 grs bp and a 400 grs conical. All rifles from Spain (Traditions/Ardesa) and Italy (Investarm/Pedersoli) have these proofing. So no case to worry.

Regards

Kirrmeister