I have to rethink the spare cylinder idea

[Loyalist Dave]

I think we pretty much have determined that some folks carried spares, some carried extra handguns, and some only one handgun/no spare. Are we done or are we still discussing? Seems like a good thread with lots of referenced information ?

LD

 

[KingOfKindling]

I think we pretty much have determined that some folks carried spares, some carried extra handguns, and some only one handgun/no spare. Are we done or are we still discussing? Seems like a good thread with lots of referenced information ?

LD

Got a bit more to add.

Recently purchased a book by Daniel E. Williams, Jr. called The Whitney Navy Revolver. On page 15 he included a review/advertisement from the New York Times.



The Remington Old and New model Army revolvers were essentially clones of the Whitney that took the cylinder swapping mechanism even further.

I think an article like this one, alongside the progression of the cylinder swapping mechanism make it quite obvious that swapping cylinders was in the designers intentions. It would have also been a feature the general public was aware of, and would have wanted to have.

 

[nick_1]

except we have never seen a bit of historical evidence that this was actually done on the frontier or in the civil war.

 

[WalnutRed]

Well, if you are willing to overlook the number of cylinders without frames being found in abandoned buildings or excavated at many locations throughout the west then you are correct, there is no "historical" evidence for spare cylinders in use.

 

[Sparkplug]

Something I wonder...
When did cartridge cylinders come about? Where there kits that just swapped out with a little mod of the frame like we have now?

Could this swap possibly be the source of all of these cylinders?

 

[TNGhost]

Got a bit more to add.

Recently purchased a book by Daniel E. Williams, Jr. called The Whitney Navy Revolver. On page 15 he included a review/advertisement from the New York Times.

View attachment 370884

The Remington Old and New model Army revolvers were essentially clones of the Whitney that took the cylinder swapping mechanism even further.

I think an article like this one, alongside the progression of the cylinder swapping mechanism make it quite obvious that swapping cylinders was in the designers intentions. It would have also been a feature the general public was aware of, and would have wanted to have.

Seems pretty definitive to me. People carried spare cylinders as a quick reload.

 

[TNGhost]

Well, if you are willing to overlook the number of cylinders without frames being found in abandoned buildings or excavated at many locations throughout the west then you are correct, there is no "historical" evidence for spare cylinders in use.

There are a number of historical references and even artifacts in this thread. Why would they need to repeatedly document spare cylinders beyond the ads for sale and these stories? I would suspect most considered it "common sense" and self-evident.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Each cylinder has to be timed to the paw as well. Cylinders were not universal even in the same make.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Something I wonder...
When did cartridge cylinders come about? Where there kits that just swapped out with a little mod of the frame like we have now?

Could this swap possibly be the source of all of these cylinders?

Experimentation start approximately 1866. Colt tried a few different methods prior to the S&W bored through patent expired.

 

[nick_1]

How popular was the Whitney.? I have read quite a few first person accounts of Western scouts and mountain men. Many civil war history books. Never a single mention of cylinder swaps yet lots of other details about loading and firing and what types and brands of fire arms.

 

[Clark Badgett]

When it comes to revolvers, too many look at them with a more modern perspective. The most popular of the revolvers was the Colt (and others) pocket models in .31 cal and the copies and forgeries of such, the second was the .36 cal versions, and copies/forgeries. The larger .44 cal types were not overly popular with civilians as they were heavy beasts, especially prior to 1860. I don’t even think the Army really offered belt holsters for the Dragoon models, opting for pommel holsters that held 1 dragoon and 1 single shot for the enlisted.

 

[Smokerr]

Well, if you are willing to overlook the number of cylinders without frames being found in abandoned buildings or excavated at many locations throughout the west then you are correct, there is no "historical" evidence for spare cylinders in use.

Well what do you think they did with those BP cylinders when they got a Cartridge conversion? Yep, they dumped them.

Or do you think they would not carry spare cartridges for the Conversion? That and carry Caps and Balls and Powder on top of the cartridges.

I think an article like this one, alongside the progression of the cylinder swapping mechanism make it quite obvious that swapping cylinders was in the designers intentions. It would have also been a feature the general public was aware of, and would have wanted to have.

Or a type of Newspaper Hype. Whole world of difference between sitting on a shooting bench swapping out cylinders and doing it in action.

 

[WalnutRed]

I also think movies have made us overestimate the number of full sized revolvers that were actually CARRIED in the west between 1860 and 1900. One of my grandfathers uncles homesteaded in Kansas prior to the CW. He served in a Kansas Cav troop during the war and returned to Kansas. When he returned to the homestead he took with him his 31 caliber Bacon revolver and Spencer carbine, which a cousin still has. The one family photo in front of his soddy also shows what looks like a sporterized Springfield rifle musket, probably converted into a shotgun. Most western settlers were not gunslingers or cowboys. And those of use who for whatever reason have carried a sidearm on a regular bases can attest that they get heavy and get in the way. I've seen examples of chaps from the late 1800s that had sewn in holsters for period pocket pistols.

 

[AlexB]

This subject got me curious about the reality of ranchwork and carrying a full size Remington clone so I started trying it.
A pita on my belt even with suspenders constantly having to stop and adjust a definite hassle.
Switched to a well fitting shoulder rig and its pretty much a nonissue for most things.
My day is not nearly as physical as a day was in the 1860's either so I suspect the answer is depends.

 

[nick_1]

I have not finished Bill Cody's auto biography so perhaps he will mention a cylinder switch but so far its been one long gun. a single shot .50 cal needle cartridge rifle and several revolvers for added firepower.

 

[KingOfKindling]

How popular was the Whitney.? I have read quite a few first person accounts of Western scouts and mountain men. Many civil war history books. Never a single mention of cylinder swaps yet lots of other details about loading and firing and what types and brands of fire arms.

They were one of the bigger guys. Dwarfed by Colt of course. Though the first Colt Walkers were made by Whitney.

Think there were over 35,000 Whitney Navy's sold to the military. A similar number of pocket models were sold to civilians. The pocket was an analog to the Navy in the same way the colt pocket was to it's larger cousins. Nearly identical, just a smaller size and caliber.

Here's my .31 cal pocket, just about identical to the full size Navy.

One more tidbit, the Whitney Navy revolver, and the Remington Old/New army pistols were designed by the same guy. I'd say the intention for swapping cylinders carried on past the Whitney, and to the Remingtons.