I know that we've discussed this alot but I'm hopelessly lost in the "do it yourself" mode. If someone was to jug choke their smoothbore barrel how would you do it with a minumum of tools. I dont have a lathe, but have access to alot of hand and power tools. Sending the barrel out to gunsmith is just to easy.LOL I would like the satisfaction of doing it myself. This smoothie has had all the parts except for the lock and barrel made by myself.I even carved the stock from a blank of Black Walnut. I'd like to do the Jug choking so that my groups tighten up in time for Turkey season and I can say "I did it all myself"
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I know we've beat this to death but?
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I was going to say you could buy a Brake Cylinder Hone (like I have sitting out in my shop) and use it in an electric drill to hone out the jug.
The problem with my hone is just behind the three "fingers" with the stones attached, there is a collar. This collar is .750 in diameter which is too large to fit a 12 guage.
If you check around, there may be smaller ones available.
As I recall, the jug starts about 1 to 2 inches down from the muzzle and extends 3-6 inches down the bore.
The stones on my hone are about 6 inches from where the drills chuck would grab the flexable shaft which would make it ideal for jugging your barrel if it wasn't for that large collar.
zonie
The problem with my hone is just behind the three "fingers" with the stones attached, there is a collar. This collar is .750 in diameter which is too large to fit a 12 guage.
If you check around, there may be smaller ones available.
As I recall, the jug starts about 1 to 2 inches down from the muzzle and extends 3-6 inches down the bore.
The stones on my hone are about 6 inches from where the drills chuck would grab the flexable shaft which would make it ideal for jugging your barrel if it wasn't for that large collar.
zonie
Just letting my mind waunder a bit.
Zonie has the right idea, I think.
I have had one like he describes.
There are different kinds of hones I have seen used on cylinders over the years.
The one I'm thinking of was a simple shaft with three spring steel paddles or even two would work you fixed emery cloth to the paddles to hone a cylinder. A guy could probably make one if he could not find it?
Zonie has the right idea, I think.
I have had one like he describes.
There are different kinds of hones I have seen used on cylinders over the years.
The one I'm thinking of was a simple shaft with three spring steel paddles or even two would work you fixed emery cloth to the paddles to hone a cylinder. A guy could probably make one if he could not find it?
Yes, you can get wheel cylinder hones from an auto parts store that will work. I've found several that are small enough for a 28 gauge bore. Get extra stones while you are at it. A quarter inch drill is perfect since there is little load and high speed cuts faster. You want to hone a section at least 4" long, ending one inch behind the muzzle. Keep the stones moving constantly back and forth in that 4" area. Keep the barrel well flooded with lube, an occasional spray of WD-40 works well, and stop often to brush the stones clean. Be very careful to not let the stones come out the muzzle while still spinning or the tool will be destroyed. You want your jug to be deepest in the middle, tapering out at both ends.
The problem is how to measure your progress. Using a micrometer and spring loaded inside calipers depends on the "feel" of the calipers to get a reading but that is what I've used.
Even a slight bit of choke will round up and even out the pattern, and thicken the center. Holes in the pattern, often wrongly attributed to the wad "driving through the shot" is characteristic of a cylinder bore. An improved cylinder choke is really a great improvement since the center of the pattern is thicker (has more pellets) than the edges. More choke will increase that central thickening, not always desirable in a bird gun for general hunting but just what you want in a turkey gun. Be prepared to spend a lot of time shooting patterns on paper and a lot more time counting pellet holes, that is the only way you can know what you have.
Have fun and good luck. :grin:
The problem is how to measure your progress. Using a micrometer and spring loaded inside calipers depends on the "feel" of the calipers to get a reading but that is what I've used.
Even a slight bit of choke will round up and even out the pattern, and thicken the center. Holes in the pattern, often wrongly attributed to the wad "driving through the shot" is characteristic of a cylinder bore. An improved cylinder choke is really a great improvement since the center of the pattern is thicker (has more pellets) than the edges. More choke will increase that central thickening, not always desirable in a bird gun for general hunting but just what you want in a turkey gun. Be prepared to spend a lot of time shooting patterns on paper and a lot more time counting pellet holes, that is the only way you can know what you have.
Have fun and good luck. :grin:
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coyotejoe-
thanks for explaining the 'hole in the pattern caused by the wad' deal. i have been pushing a fowler back on the 'to build' list because i couldn't see how to overcome this effect, but now i'll probably forego the pair of pistols and go with a smoothie.
is there any theoretical explaination for choking a barrel fixing this problem, or is it empirical?
thanks again, i think... let's see... a new barrel, some more stock blank, a new lock... yet more overtime at the plant... some new gadgets...
yea, thanks...
thanks for explaining the 'hole in the pattern caused by the wad' deal. i have been pushing a fowler back on the 'to build' list because i couldn't see how to overcome this effect, but now i'll probably forego the pair of pistols and go with a smoothie.
is there any theoretical explaination for choking a barrel fixing this problem, or is it empirical?
thanks again, i think... let's see... a new barrel, some more stock blank, a new lock... yet more overtime at the plant... some new gadgets...
yea, thanks...
Coyote Joe, Thanks so much for the information.I knew that I was not the only do it yourselfer out there willing to try this jug choking. I have been playing with the paper shot cups with great success. The last turkey target had 23-#4 pellets in the head and neck at 20yrds, buy still had a few holes in the pattern. This is great but I'd like to get away from making the shot cups if I could. Also I shoot at the rondys and the will not let you use paper shotcups. Thank again, I'll post results when I jug choke the 16 gauge barrel.
Theoretical, yes, and like so many firearms matters it is ONLY theoretical. When the shot column clears the muzzle and is no longer contained by the steel cylinder, the wads still in the bore are still being driven by gas pressure thus pushing into the shot and scattering them at that instant. This is why many people have found their patterns improved by cutting the wads to half-length. It was once a popular notion that the choke "retarded" the wads and mitigated that effect. I doubt that.MSW said:
It has been proved over and over that cylinder bore patterns have a certain "randomness", with tight clumps and open holes in them. Even a slight bit of choke will give more uniform, round and consistent patterns. That is why skeet shooters, who want very large pattern spreads to hit those fast moving clays at short range, don't shoot cylinder bores but prefer "skeet choke" which is about like improved cylinder or just a bit less, say .003-.005" constriction. That choke gives patterns very nearly as large as cylinder bore but more uniform, without gaps and holes.
My 28 gauge with 30" cylinder bore threw very ragged, patchy patterns, undependable beyond 20 yards. After an hour's work with the wheel cylinder hone it now puts 50% of it's one ounce load into a 30" circle at 40 yards with about 2/3 of those inside the 21" center. A 21" circle has roughly half the area of a 30" so if the pattern were absolutely uniform it would have half as many pellet holes. So I have just a bit of "central thickening" from my improved-cylinder choke, a full choke would have much more central thickening making for a "miss or mangle" gun on shots inside 30 yards. :grin:
But for a "turkey gun", taking carefully aimed head shots, that tight center is just what you want.
crowkiller
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Use a expandable reamer this will taper the choke on both ends properly.Then use a hone to polish the bore.A reamer will remove the material very quick.
Crowkiller: Don't you have to expand an expandable reamer while it's out of the bore?
The ones I've seen have a expanding nut or screw that a person would have to reach while the reamer was well inside the bore if they wanted to create a "jug" choke because the muzzle diameter is the same size as the bore towards the breech from the "jug".
zonie
The ones I've seen have a expanding nut or screw that a person would have to reach while the reamer was well inside the bore if they wanted to create a "jug" choke because the muzzle diameter is the same size as the bore towards the breech from the "jug".
zonie
This is the cutting side of a jug choking reamer. It is a specialized square reamer, this one has the cutting edges made of a full hard HSS power hacksaw blade ground to shape and soft solderedto a low carbon body. The tapered ends of the cutter form the tapered beginning and end of the jug choke recess.
This is the other side of the reamer. The hickory slip is attached to a steel strip which extends to the ring on the shaft. The hickory slip and steel slide in a slot that is cut as a ramp. The way that this works is that you push the ring towards the reamer and the hickory backing sildes down the ramp making the reamer smaller and ready to fit into your barrel. When the reamer is in the barrel you pull the ring toward your brace and the reamer will wedge in place ready to cut. You can make small adjustments in size by placeing paper shims between the hickory slip and the steel strip. I hope that this makes sense to any of you that care to read it. Jug choking works, does not alter the appearance of the gun, and is much easier to load than other chokes.
Bruce Robb
Now that is very interesting and well thought out.BMR said:
This is the cutting side of a jug choking reamer. It is a specialized square reamer, this one has the cutting edges made of a full hard HSS power hacksaw blade ground to shape and soft solderedto a low carbon body. The tapered ends of the cutter form the tapered beginning and end of the jug choke recess.
This is the other side of the reamer. The hickory slip is attached to a steel strip which extends to the ring on the shaft. The hickory slip and steel slide in a slot that is cut as a ramp. The way that this works is that you push the ring towards the reamer and the hickory backing sildes down the ramp making the reamer smaller and ready to fit into your barrel. When the reamer is in the barrel you pull the ring toward your brace and the reamer will wedge in place ready to cut. You can make small adjustments in size by placeing paper shims between the hickory slip and the steel strip. I hope that this makes sense to any of you that care to read it. Jug choking works, does not alter the appearance of the gun, and is much easier to load than other chokes.
Bruce Robb
Thanks for sharing!
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