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1eyemountainmen

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I missed a nice size mule deer today. Feel baaaadddddd :redface: I have always believed I was a "good" shot but, I think I got a little buck fever. My rifle has a saying on the patchbox. "FORTUNATA FERINA EST, QUAE TELUM FULMEN MEUM DEFUGIT"
 
Really missed?! last week I thought to have missed a Fox (at 70m with my Swedish Mauser, though it was rather dark, I could aim good with the scope.
I found nothing at the place, no bloodtrail, no wool.
I searched 1 houer and found him 40m away with a good shot in the lung.
Same story with a roebuck, he went away after the shot totally calm, passed a barbedwire-fence, and disapeared bekind a tree in high grass.
Nothing was found.
2 month later i found his bones amd the skull maybe 10m away.
In Germany we have verry specialised dogs to find game even if they are only scratched.
 
1eyedmountainmen said:
Feel baaaadddddd :redface:

Don't feel bad. As long as you are absolutely sure you missed. EVERYBODY misses. It's part of hunting.

HD
 
Why not learn to read and follow deer tracks, and just track the animal far enough to find out if you hit him or not? Blood may not appear at the place where the deer was shot, but sometimes- sometimes more than 100 yards away-- you will find a blood trail begin, and soon after, the deer. If a deer is hit while standing, all four feet " flinch " leaving distinctive marks on the ground that you can use to study each of the four feet, to locate any anomalies on each of the 2 toes on each foot. Those are the "Accidentals" you use to follow THAT deer, and none other. A deer may Leap after being shot, and appear to run off, but as soon as deer get something between themselves and where they think danger lies, they slow to a walk. When they walk, the rear feet step on the tracks made by the front feet.

You can sex descriminate deer tracks by remembering that does have a birth canal, and that spreads their rear feet wider than their front feet. The rear track will cover the outside of their front track when walking. But the impression you are seeing looks like the foot slipped. Buckes have narrow hips compared to their front legs, so their rear feet step on the inside of the front tracks, again leaving a doubling that looks like their foot slipped.

The length of the tracks are easily observed, and can separate your deer from others. The width of the toes, as well as the width of the tracks they leave can also help you distinquish one deer from the others. Injured deer show a distinctive change in gait reflecting the location and extent of the injury. That can be used by you to distinguish the tracks of YOUR DEER.

Scent Tracking dogs are fine, but like most things, you never have them around when you need them. If you learn to track, you have that ability with you always.

There are two books to teach you tracking fundamentals, and then what you need to track deer: Kearney, Jack, " Tracking: A Blueprint For Learning How", and Brown, Tom, Jr., " Tom Brown's Field Guide to Nature Observation and Tracking." The first teaches you how to use light to see tracks on any kind of surface; the second gives you detailed information to use in identifying game tracks, and following them.

Good Hunting> Oh, lest you think I have never lost a deer- you are mistaken. I was tracking a wounded deer on my hands and knees through oak and hickory forest leaf clutter, when a storm front BLEW in , literally, and blew all my leaf clutter away, and with it, covered up the tracks in the soft turf underneath. I searched for hours after the front passed over, going out into wider arcs, and circles trying to pick those tracks up again, but could not find them, and had to quit when it got both Dark, and began raining hard enough that footing was getting difficult and impossible on the steep sides of the ravine where I had lost the trail. A month later, I found his remains in a ravine one ridge over, and about 150 yards North of where I lost his tracks. I didn't like that much, either.

The guy who wounded the deer thought I was nuts following the footprints in leaf clutter and went back to camp when he saw the front approaching. He refused to come out and help another tracker and me find the tracks, even when we were working with lanterns after dark. I didn't blame him for his scepticism then, or now. He just had no idea what you could do with tracks. He knows a bit more now.
 
1eyedmountainmen said:
I missed a nice size mule deer today. Feel baaaadddddd :redface: I have always believed I was a "good" shot but, I think I got a little buck fever. ...

same here, a couple of weeks ago. have beeen ****** at myself ever since.
 
paulvallandigham said:
Why not learn to read and follow deer tracks, and just track the animal far enough to find out if you hit him or not?
Why do you assume that the OP can't read and follow deer tracks? There is nothing in his post that says he didn't do everything humanly possible to confirm that it was a miss.
:shake:
 
I missed a fox last night too. My dog told me the way he escaped and looked at me with disgust :shake:

Here is a picture of my Spaniel retrieving a Scottish fox recently.
scotfox004.jpg

She will let me know if there is any blood by her body language. She has little experiance on deer but is showing great promise. She goes everywhere with me for these very such occasions.

It happens to all of us, keeps us humble :hatsoff:

Britsmoothy.
 
I can not believe you guys miss I never miss I have never missed a thing I shot at. Yeah right I missed twice last year before I got my first flintlock kill. Dont dwell on the miss just try and keep your head up and get back after him. I hope you get a great one. Ps if and when I miss again someone please tell me to get my head up and go back after it again. Best of luck.
 
We all miss. Don't let it dampen your spirits for too long. Get back out there in the Great Outdoors and keep trying. :thumbsup:
 
:( .................. :grin: BUT! least ya got a shot!..ya seen somethin! bright side!! lookie at the bright side! may be a blessing...ya never know.... :hmm: :thumbsup:
 
Don't feel too bad. A few years back I missed a decent 4X4 bull elk and beat myself up for it the rest of the day. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise as I shot a 300 class 6X6 bull the next day.

The funniest thing about the 4X4 bull was that the sound of the shot did not phase him. I had been cow calling every hundred yards trying to get a response. I think he was convinced that there was a cow around that he could snag before a bigger bull came along to chase him off. When I shot, he started walking toward me angling about 30 yards to my left. He was watching me the whole time as I scrambled to reload, dumping half my powder on the ground in the process. As I finished reloading, he got down wind of me and that was the only thing that snapped him out of it, causing him to forget about the "cow" he was looking for and run off into the timber.
 
Paul, I don't know why you sent the following PT, I'll try to read it more thoroughly when I have an hour or so.

In the meantime, I do think you read more into the post than was there - and I think you're out of line questioning the ethics of others. The mere fact that the OP lamented his miss in this public forum tells me his ethics are fine. BOY you have a high opinion of yourself, don't you? :haha:

Paul's PT:

" I don't assume anything. I read his post. If he had been reading tracks he would not have done what he did. And he wouldn't be talking about using Dogs to track wounded deer.

I have been tracking for more than 50 years. I have been teaching others to track for more than 30 years. I have been writing articles on tracking for about 20 years, and I think I know when someone knows how to track, and when they don't by what they write about following up on game. Its called " Reading sign ". I read body language, "sign" on the ground, sign and body language of animals, including both pets and wild animals, and I read sign from what people say and write. Yeah, sometimes I am wrong. But, its getting rarer and rarer, and that fact makes me sadder. Its one skill where getting very good provides no pleasure at all. In 1988, I read the sign from the tracks and circumstances surrounding my search for a missing man, and told the cops that the man was probably dead, that he was murdered by two men, and that they would solve the murder when one of the men got the " Blabs". The body of the missing man was found 5 days later- miles from where I had been reading tracks where his car had been dumped. He had been bludgeoned to death with a steel weight bar, by the two men whose tracks I have found and followed. And, they solved the case when the second man got the guilts and told all about it. Everything I told them about what the two men did after they dumped the car was verified by the confessions, and statements of other parties involved. I also told the cops that at least one of the men was a resident of our county, and lived in the Northern half of the county. The first guy fit that to a tee. Both were county residents. I also told them that the two guys walked out without talking to each other, and that was verified by the second man in his confession. That spooked the investigators so much that one Police Sergeant refused to talk to me anymore because he believed I must be Psychic! I learned that from his boss, who is a personal friend and my gunsmith. My friend was upset at me because I told his sergeant too much information from the tracks- not that I could do it-- he understood I had been tracking all my life and was quite good at it-- but because his men had NO training in tracking, didn't know anyone could track, much less read both foot impressions and "sign ", and then read what the person laying the tracks is doing, thinking and feeling.

Sorry if my comment bothered you. I notice a second post from a guy who is still pursuing the use of a dog. That is the typical reaction I get to any suggestion that hunters learn to track. If it involves effort, or time, or work, they aren't interested. Somewhere, they also missed the lecture on ethics."
 
Can I get a cup of whatever it is that you are drinking, spot? This was your post to me.

"Why do you assume that the OP can't read and follow deer tracks? There is nothing in his post that says he didn't do everything humanly possible to confirm that it was a miss."


I chose NOt to answer it on this forum, because I am not interested in taking this off topic. But, since you saw fit to publish my PM to you, I will answer you.

Most hunters do not educate themselve about tracking, because of a variety of reasons. Some don't think it can be done, others think only Indians can do that, others just don't know anyone who can teach them. As a result they lose a lot of wounded game they don't even look for because they think they missed! My best tracking buddy had a deer stumble past him and die with 10 feet of where he was sitting. He back tracked the deer onto the adjoining farm property, and found where the deer had been shot, found the guy's arrow, looked up and there was the guy, still sitting in his treestand, NOT saying a word to my friend, with another arrow nocked, and waiting for another deer to come by. My friend told him where to find his deer, made him get down, took him to the deer, made the guy put his deer tag on the animal, and then helped him drag the deer out to where he could drive his pickup close enough to load the deer on the truck and leave. The guy told my buddy that he hadn't ever killed a deer before, and thought that if he hit it the deer would drop right there! He didn't know how to recognize deer tracks much less follow them, didn't know what a blood trail looked like( there were both in this plowed field where the deer was shot) and then confessed that he had no idea how to field dress a deer. So, my buddy taught him that after he returned with the truck, to lighten the load they had to pick up and put into the truck. The guy was politely grateful, but acted sad that his deer season was over, and he couldn't shoot more deer! | My buddy and I have tracked many deer , including deer for other hunters. They are always shocked that we can pick up the trail and follow it to their deer, or backwards from the deer to the point where it was shot. One kid I helped did not know how to find the deadfall he was in that morning when he shot a nice buck. I went with him, and we walked " sort of this direction, if I remember right...." and happened on his dead deer. I then backtracked the deer to where he shot it, showing him the deer's tracks, and also showing him his own tracks where he stepped right over a 50 cent piece sized blood spot. When we got to where he shot the buck, I pointed to some fur on some brush behind the deer where the slug leaving the body had taken fur and thrown it a couple of feet away onto some brush. Then, he turned around, and said, " Say, That's the deadfall I was sitting in!" I stopped him and showed him his own tracks leading from the deadfall to show him how easy it was to follow his own tracks to find his way back.

I have been teaching tracking, and writing articles on tracking for 30 years. Sadly, most hunters want everything to be " Easy ". If it involves time, and study, they aren't interested.

I think losing a deer that didn't need to be lost is even sadder. :( :hmm:
 
dont feel bad at all. It took me 6 years to get my first deer. I have probably missed over 20 deer in my lifetime lol
 
Learn from it and go on. That is why it's called hunting and not shooting! Good Hunting. :wink:
 
I have to ask, what is the translation?

"Fortune is Brutal, When My Bullet fires to Miss"

The internet was no help. Just curious. :wink:
 
I agree in full with baikal. Last year I shot a roe doe over snow and din't find anything at the hitting place, no blood and no hair. i only saw tracks, but the bad thing was that the tracks went in the thicket and there was no snow at all. So no chance to get the peace in the darkness. While it was in the late evening and already dark I went home and searched the other day when sunrised. When I was at the hitting place again I looked into the thicket and in about 20 m I saw it lying. I field dressed it at once and it was still usable because it was very cold during the night. The shot went into the boilerroom and was closed when the deer starts running by fur and fat, so no blood. There was no exit because the ball went through teh boilerroom, the left blade and got stuck under the skin at the neck.

@ Paul:

Here in Germany and many other european countries special dogs are used for these cases and in nearly all cases the deers are found, if not they were not hitten deadly. In Germany it is a must for every hunting ground owner to own a dog or have the possibility to get one at once. It is nice that you recommend these books of tracking, but even the best book and the best tracker (Indian) can't manage the work of a dog and his nose. this is the expirience of hundreds of years hunting with dogs here in Germany.


Regards

Kirrmeister
 
I won't debate the issue of dogs vs. man trackers. Lets just note that I began my teaching career teaching police K-9 handlers to track visually.

With a good handler who knows what he is doing, the dogs are wonderful. All the mistakes and failures to find that I witnessed during training sessions were due entirely to mistakes made by the handler.

By teaching the officers to visually track, I was able to get them to see their mistakes, and stop blaming the dogs. They also were able to see " sign " that meant nothing to the dogs, and could even be missed by the dogs. This is important in police work for locating discarded clothing or other items that can provide DNA, or fingerprint information that can positively identify a suspect, and place him at the scene of the crime.

In trailing animals by scent, reading the tracks Helps the officer keep the dog on the right scent trail, and even more importantly, insures that he doesn't doubt the dog, and pull him off the right scent trail.

Dogs used to search for animal scents are often, but not always, " Ground scenters" like Bloodhounds. They sniff the odors produced by dead skin cells( rafts) left by the fleeing animal close to where their feet touch the ground. On game trails, there may be little scent from a deer's feet on the actual trail, while there is much more above on branches and leaves of brush that is rubbed by the BODY of the deer as it travels down the trail. Some ground scenting dogs miss that source of scent, by sniffing UNDER IT!

Air scenting dogs can also be used, and they are often better at trailing animals through thick brush, or across hard surfaces, where the dead skin( think of dandruff) may be easily blown away several feet or even yards by the winds. There will be a scent trail, but it will be at a distance( downwind) from the true trail, where the footprints are located. Both ground scenting dogs and air scenting dogs will usually follow the scent trail that contains the most Scent, as they are trained to go from weak to stronger scent. That takes them off the true trail, and to the distant scent trail.

If the handlers don't understand this, they see the dog sniffing busily along a trail( or worse, crashing through thick brush the handler can't go through) where there are obviously no tracks, begin to doubt their dogs, and pull them off the track, when the dogs were doing fine. In fact, as soon as the animal leaves an open area, and returns to locations where the terrain, or forest growth, acts as a wind barrier, the scent trail will " magically " return to the true trail, and the animal tracks.

I have also worked with hunting dog trainers, and shown them how to use tracking skills to work with their dogs to locate game, using both pointers, and retrievers.

I think the main problem with dog folks' training, is that they have never been exposed to William Syrotuck's, "Scent and the Scenting Dog", which explains what creates the odor, and how it gets from the animal to the ground/air for the dogs to follow.

If you shoot birds on the wing, and have a retriever go out to retrieve the downed bird, you can often see the dog following a looping track of wind blown scent, down wind of the actual line of flight, but finally coming back to where the bird hit the ground. This is the same kind of thing I have seen with dogs who are tracking other game, or people, using scent.

I trained the K-9 handlers to stick with the visual trail of tracks, while the dog moved with the scent trail. If the two trials diverged too much, then a second tracker is put on the visual trail, while the handler stays with his dog. The visual tracker's job was to maintain the trail, and look for discards. If he found a good footprint impression, he was to either photograph it, or mark it for photography and/or casting later. The same occurred with discards. Often a separate Crime Scene Evidence Technician was called in to actually photograph and collect the evidence, while the trackers kept on the trail.

A dog is only as good as his handler is trained. A dog could care less about blood, or how much of it is being left by a wounded animal. A dog does not note drag marks indicating a broken leg, or an animal that is weakening. A dog is not going to read sign on branches and leaves that tell him where the animal is injured and, sometime, how badly, or insignificantly.

So, recognize the limitations of using dogs(and their handlers), and consider filling in those gaps with visual tracking skills.
 
Paul,

I'm not interested in getting into a sparring match with you. I normally don't even read your long, self-indulgent posts. This one just happened to catch my eye and hit me wrong.

The entirety of the original post was this:

"I missed a nice size mule deer today. Feel baaaadddddd I have always believed I was a "good" shot but, I think I got a little buck fever. My rifle has a saying on the patchbox. "FORTUNATA FERINA EST, QUAE TELUM FULMEN MEUM DEFUGIT"..."

There was nothing in the post that suggested the hunter didn't do everything he could to ensure his shot was a clean miss. YOU read that in.

I posted your PT to me because I felt you were insulting some of the other participants in this thread and I think this should be kept above board. Please do not contact me privately to insult others who have posted publicly. I do realize that may not have been your intention.

Using dogs to track game that may be wounded is NOT unethical. Quite the opposite I believe. Your opinion obviously differs and that is fine I suppose. But none of us here are appointed above any others, and none of us have an inherent right to judge the morality or ethics of anyone else here, provided what they are doing is legal. However strongly we might feel about an issue, we do not have that right.

Again, I am not suggesting you did any such thing on purpose, and others here might not even agree with me that you did. That is simply the way it struck me, and that is why I responded as I did.

Spot
 
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