I Need Patch Help

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

A couple posts up I showed the tight weave 100% cotton I bought.

I'm going to get some sleep then try it when I wake up.

Also have a new lube formulation, closer to a recipe I used for smokeless at one point before developing a hard wash-type lube. It held at those temps and pressures just fine. We'll see if it works.

It is half Crisco.

Thanks,

Josh

 

[enbutler]

I just made a trip to my local Walmart last night looking for patch material. I asked the 'lil 'ole lady if she had some 100% cotton ticking, she said "sure" and showed me several to choose from. I whipped out my caliper and asked in my friendliest smart alek voice "do you happen to know the thickness of this stuff?"

She said "no, but this one is what I shoot in MY flintlock. This one is easier to load but won't group as well and this muslin over here is almost as good at half the price."

Sheepishly I bought a foot of each, average cost about $3/yard. I got the feeling that she's gonna bag a bigger buck than I am opening day. I love livin' in the sticks....

 

[necchi]

Edb,
"She said "no, but this one is what I shoot in MY flintlock"

:rotf: , gotta love that,, I'd be goin back to that Lady again,,she might have a good tip for proper lube,,ask her if she's "cuttin at the muzzle" ? :thumbsup:

 

[enbutler]

She said she used spit, which was really just a little more information than I wanted... I almost asked "Red Man or Skoal?"

 

[Bill Hall]

Granny Clampett lives on! Bill

 

[necchi]

"She said she used spit"

Olde reliable, a patch lubricant and cleaning solvent ya always have with ya,

I'm what they call a "swabber", meaning I clean my bore after each shot (every shot) too maintain a consistant bore condition,(Thank You Dutch!) and I use a spit patch to do it, :thumbsup:

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Ok, here are the results.

This is the control group, fired with 50gns Pyrodex with wadding and T-shirt cotton.

Shot that yesterday in preparation for today.

This is what I shot today, with the new fabric:

I had fouled the bore off the target, so all five of those should have been good.

This thick material is really hard to seat. I had to tap on the end of the ramrod more than a few times with a thick limb. I'm pretty sure I damaged the ball noses by doing this, and this would explain the fliers.

I'm thinking I need to go back and get some tight woven thinner material. This stuff, after washing, measures .018 to .020, and compresses to about half that.

The other stuff I was looking at measured .010, and compressed to .008.

The upside is that the patches looked new, with only a soot ring around them.

Lube in both cases was 50/50 lanolin/Crisco. A few shots were fired with pure Crisco to see if it would make seating easier. It did not.

Do you think I should get the thinner stuff? I don't fancy taking five minutes to seat the ball after shooting game.

Thanks!

Josh

 

[Billnpatti]

The best all around patch material that I have found is plain pure cotton drill fron Jo Ann fabrics. It mics .015 in the store but after it is washed, it mics at .018. That may sound a bit too thick but the stuff mics .008 compressed. I lube mine with straight Ballistol. Another thing to do is to make some over powder wads and load them over your powder charge before seating you ball. I have a .50 cal rifle and I use a 1/2 inch hollow punch from Harbor Freight to make my OP wads from 5 oz. scrap tooling leather. I cut them and put them into a small medicine bottle and pour Ballistol on them and let them soak for a day or so. Then I pat them dry and they are ready to go. They will make a heck of a difference in the consistancy and accuracy of your rifle.

 

[nchawkeye]

Sounds like you need a short starter, and work with your powder charge...

Don't foul the bore before shooting...Clean after each shot...A ball flattened while loading is just as accurate as one that isn't...I've seen competition shooters start a ball with a mallet, plus, they always clean betweeen shots...Those "round" balls oblate when you pull the trigger, so they aren't really round anymore...

If you shot 5 times without cleaning between shots, that material isn't too thick or you couldn't do that...

 

[Josh Smith]

I did sort of swab between shots. Just not wet. Guess I always thought that you had to use a damp mop of some sort for it to be a swab.

I use cotton balls for wads, and they take most of the fouling down to the bottom as they fit tightly.

I seat them, then do the bullet.

Went ahead and bought some of this very same stuff, only thinner (mikes at .010"). It's in the washer right now and I'm going to shrink it just a bit thicker in the dryer.

My main concern is using it for hunting. If I need a follow-up shot, I'll need it fast. That's really what I'm after. Speed (as far as muzzleloaders go) with extreme accuracy being secondary in this rifle. It's a shorty and I doubt it can take full advantage of a target.

The next muzzleloader will be accurate. Haven't decided whether it will fire PRB or Minie balls yet, but it will have a dedicated twist, will be of at least .50 caliber, and will have a States' War period style 'scope on it. Thinking about it, I'll likely have it firing conicals just because I want to beat out those other rifles which shall not be mentioned... at least a few of 'em

Thanks!

Josh

 

[Zonie]

Fast reloading speed when hunting is a modern concept.
Even with all of the trick reloading items in the world, if you don't down the critter it will be on its way. The question is, how far on its way?

The old timers who hunted with muzzleloaders knew this so rather than hurry the reloading they often took their time being as quite as possible.

Some even sit down a spell after they finished reloading taking in the views from where the shot was made.

After resting for a few moments they slowly started following the path the deer (or whatever) took and by looking for the trail they often found the animal dead.

The reason for this is when it is shot, the deer seldom knows exactly what happened and they will 'bolt' for a short distance. If nothing is following them and there are no loud sounds the critter will figure out that it isn't feeling too well but nothing is after them.
They will then lay down to recuperate and that's about the end of it. They don't get back up.

The only times I've heard that this doesn't work is when there are other hunters close by in the area. Although it hasn't happened to me, I've heard of some of these A H's tagging the deer you shot. :cursing:

 

[catman]

I did sort of swab between shots. Just not wet. Guess I always thought that you had to use a damp mop of some sort for it to be a swab.

I use cotton balls for wads, and they take most of the fouling down to the bottom as they fit tightly.

I seat them, then do the bullet.

Went ahead and bought some of this very same stuff, only thinner (mikes at .010"). It's in the washer right now and I'm going to shrink it just a bit thicker in the dryer.

My main concern is using it for hunting. If I need a follow-up shot, I'll need it fast. That's really what I'm after. Speed (as far as muzzleloaders go) with extreme accuracy being secondary in this rifle. It's a shorty and I doubt it can take full advantage of a target.

The next muzzleloader will be accurate. Haven't decided whether it will fire PRB or Minie balls yet, but it will have a dedicated twist, will be of at least .50 caliber, and will have a States' War period style 'scope on it. Thinking about it, I'll likely have it firing conicals just because I want to beat out those other rifles which shall not be mentioned... at least a few of 'em

Thanks!

Josh

Are you doing a water clean scrub & rince of the bore, drying it & oiling the bore & outside of your MZ after every shooting until the next time out? Just asking.

 

[necchi]

Fast reloading speed when hunting is a modern concept.
Even with all of the trick reloading items in the world, if you don't down the critter it will be on its way. The question is, how far on its way?

The old timers who hunted with muzzleloaders knew this so rather than hurry the reloading they often took their time being as quite as possible.

Some even sit down a spell after they finished reloading taking in the views from where the shot was made.

After resting for a few moments they slowly started following the path the deer (or whatever) took and by looking for the trail they often found the animal dead.

The reason for this is when it is shot, the deer seldom knows exactly what happened and they will 'bolt' for a short distance. If nothing is following them and there are no loud sounds the critter will figure out that it isn't feeling too well but nothing is after them.
They will then lay down to recuperate and that's about the end of it. They don't get back up.

The only times I've heard that this doesn't work is when there are other hunters close by in the area. Although it hasn't happened to me, I've heard of some of these A H's tagging the deer you shot. :cursing:

EXACTLY :applause: :bow: :applause: :applause:

 

[BigDogg]

Thicker patch: 100% cotton drill cloth or ticking. These guys KNOW what they are talking about. The thinner stuff tears and RUINS accuracy. Always make the first shot count, instead of relying on a fast reload. You can load as fast as lightning, but if you can't put it where it counts, what difference does a fast reload make when all you have is manure coming out of the muzzle??? :shake: :idunno: :shocked2:

 

[necchi]

Ya know guy's,

Doesn't our new friend Josh kinda remind ya of Lucas in his younger days? :wink:

Bound an determind to learn all this new fun stuff, yet under some anxiety to actually try it.

Hang in there Josh,,Lucas stayed the course with us and,, well he's got his second gun now with an extra barrel, even got himself to a local vous' in his area to get info first hand with a group of other BP nut's,,
:thumbsup:

 

[Josh Smith]

I did sort of swab between shots. Just not wet. Guess I always thought that you had to use a damp mop of some sort for it to be a swab.

I use cotton balls for wads, and they take most of the fouling down to the bottom as they fit tightly.

I seat them, then do the bullet.

Went ahead and bought some of this very same stuff, only thinner (mikes at .010"). It's in the washer right now and I'm going to shrink it just a bit thicker in the dryer.

My main concern is using it for hunting. If I need a follow-up shot, I'll need it fast. That's really what I'm after. Speed (as far as muzzleloaders go) with extreme accuracy being secondary in this rifle. It's a shorty and I doubt it can take full advantage of a target.

The next muzzleloader will be accurate. Haven't decided whether it will fire PRB or Minie balls yet, but it will have a dedicated twist, will be of at least .50 caliber, and will have a States' War period style 'scope on it. Thinking about it, I'll likely have it firing conicals just because I want to beat out those other rifles which shall not be mentioned... at least a few of 'em

Thanks!

Josh

Are you doing a water clean scrub & rince of the bore, drying it & oiling the bore & outside of your MZ after every shooting until the next time out? Just asking.

Hello,

Absolutely.

I start by filling the sink with water that I can just put my finger in for five seconds. I pull the barrel from the rifle, remove the nipple and drum screw, and put that end in the water.

I then take a swab or, more often, a .45 brush wrapped with cotton cloth from an old shirt, and put both on a Dewey rod. I then swab the barrel out. Water goes all over the place, but the water in the sink is black when I'm done.

I follow this up with a fresh cloth and another swabbing session.

I then drain the water and swab the bore and drum dry, as well as the outside of the barrel.

I apply oil while it's still hot from the water, inside and out.

While the oil is sitting there seasoning, I clean the nipple and the screw, and lightly oil the threads. I don't want either to rust in there.

I go back to the barrel, run a dry patch down it to swab up any oil that didn't soak in, and swab out the drum.

Turning my attention to the lock, I clean that out. Usually it's not fouled enough to warrant more than a rinsing, but it does get oiled every time.

After everything is dry, I reassemble the rifle.

This is done whether I fire one or one hundred shots.

Josh

 

[Josh Smith]

Thicker patch: 100% cotton drill cloth or ticking. These guys KNOW what they are talking about. The thinner stuff tears and RUINS accuracy. Always make the first shot count, instead of relying on a fast reload. You can load as fast as lightning, but if you can't put it where it counts, what difference does a fast reload make when all you have is manure coming out of the muzzle??? :shake: :idunno: :shocked2:

Hello,

You folks got me started, and I thank you.

I am the type who MUST experiment.

I'm left handed. After I bought a 1911 pistol, I was not satisfied with the GI configuration - I have large hands and it hurt to shoot. It now wears a beavertail (fitted), and pretty much everything else is built to the MEU(SOC) 1911 specs. However, I did go through many, many ambi safeties while finding the one that was perfect. This cost as much as the pistol itself.

My Savage .22LR BTVS now has a set trigger instead of an Accutrigger. My preference. Because they don't sell set triggers for these rifles, well, I had to make it.

I've reloaded .22LR before. This was strictly an experiment.

In all these instances, I started out with a steep learning curve and became a sponge for the knowledge. I then applied it and took it a couple steps further.

I don't doubt you folks know what you're talking about. I don't doubt it a bit. It all makes perfect sense, and I can picture it all.

However, I have to do my own thing once I get to a certain point.

I often fly in the face of conventional wisdom, but things work.

I intend no insult at all toward anybody here, and have great respect for each of your experiences and knowledge. I'm just beginning to go my own direction, and we'll see where that leads.

This is not to say I will not have questions; I always have questions.

I just may apply the answers differently than others might.

Please don't think this is anything but me being me - a creative person who happens to be gifted with his hands, such that it makes up for deficiencies in other areas.

Thanks again, All!

Josh

 

[Josh Smith]

Ok, I re-read that and it sounded sort of harsh.

That was not my intent and I do apologize.

My only point is this: From what I am given to understand, patches came about because folks got tired of hammering caliber-sized balls down their barrels to create tight seals. It took too long and too much effort.

With the patch, the ball could just be shoved down the barrel, enabling faster reloading in the field without the need to carry a hammer.

This is why I don't want to use a hammer. If I didn't care, I'd just cast a .51 caliber ball and tap it down.

That's all I'm getting at.

Thanks,

Josh

 

[nchawkeye]

Forget the second shot, take care of the first...
My first shot is patched with .018 ticking...My second hunting shot is patched with .015 ticking...

When sighting, working up a load or shooting in competition I want a tight patch combo...This is what I use for my first shot when deer hunting...In my rifle, that second shot with a thinner patch has good hunting accuracy but is seldom needed, unless I have a 2nd deer come by...

In 35 years of hunting with a flintlock I have never needed or got a 2nd shot at the 1st deer I shot at...

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

That makes a whole lot of sense to me. I think I may steal your technique, sir, if it's ok with you

Thank you!

Josh