I Need Patch Help

[longbow1]

If it still cots the patches then you might have sharp lands may need to hone them some But that's another story :wink:

 

[flintlock10]

Hi everyone, I've been studying your posts and you folks are a fantastic resource. I'm glad I found this site!
I found some cotton material from a judo suit that I picked up at a flea market. It mic'd at .018". I tore it into strips a bit wider than the barrel I think about 1-3/8". I threw 60 gns of triple 7 fffg down the pipe and then a patch and a .490 round ball. It was extremely hard to get started but once the patch and ball moved a few inches the rest was easy. This brings me to this question, When the ball and patch are driven down, do the lands cut into the patch before firing? I was unable to do any range work outside today as the temp was -20c. I'll wait for a warmer day. :wink:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If the muzzle of the barrel is not crowned sufficiently, and the face of the lands have sharp edges, or burrs, yes, the patching can be cut. Did you LUBE that patching before putting it down the barrel?

If you want to know what is happening in the barrel, READ the spent patches after each shot. They will tell you if the fabric is thick enough, if you are using the right lube, or enough lube, and if your muzzle needs some work.

 

[MSW]

Josh- welcome to the addictive world of ML shooting... by way of fair warning, most of your center fire stuff will see less and less use. To paraphrase the cute little green guy in the movie: Once turned to the dark side have you, forever will it dominate your range time.

You have good advice here and it appears that you're on your way to shooting nirvana. The only 'brain cramps' which i suffered when i started buying my own patch material were mistakenly buying cloth with polyester in it (by way of warning, this will make your barrel a bXXX to get clean) and then there was the time i forgot to wash the sizing out of the cloth... bad shooter! very bad shooter! NO cookie for you!!

By way of further advice, you may want to consider getting a copy of Dutch Schoultz' monograph. You can contact him at
www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

this will cost a bit (i think it's up to twentyfive or thirty bucks) up front, but it will more than make up for itself in the cost of powder, caps and lead, not to mention the time you spend at the range trying to figure out what's going wrong. He explains what's happening, why it works, and what to do. When his eyesight was working he was the guy to beat at the range, but now his sight is conking out, which is a great shame. His advice, however, is still just as sharp as it ever was.

Best of luck, and

make good smoke!

 

[Bill Hall]

Hi Fiveoh. To expand on Paul's answer, the patches are not SUPPOSED to be cut by the rifling, but can, and often do get cut during loading, for the reasons Paul stated. If cutting is occuring, evidence can be observed by examining the spent patches.

The cuts may be in the form of slits in the material, but can also be seen as small-to-large ragged holes, or even the total loss of material on one side of the patch. I've found that most of the time, material failure that occurs off center of the patch can be attributed to some kind of adverse patch cutting.

If you find material failure in the center of the patch, or throughout the entire patch, it's usually due to some other factor, i.e. weak material, burn through, etc.

The tightness you are experiencing during the first few inches of the ball's travel is typical of having too much resistance during loading. The resistance goes away as the ball conforms to the bore, usually after about 6" or so past the muzzle. You'd think the ball would get progressively easier to push down, but in reality, there seems to be that "spot" where it suddenly gets easier. I don't understand it either, but that seems to be how it works :idunno: This condition can be caused by a ball/patch combo that's too tight, fouling in the barrel, or as Paul mentioned, lack of lube. Or a combination of all of the above.

I suggest swabbing between shots to see how that affects the problem. Next, try a different lube. If the problem still exists, then try a different patch material. You don't neccesarily have to go in that order, I'm just relaying what I would do.

Just a side note: If you are trying to find the most accurate load, a consistant amount of fouling in the bore should be kept from shot-to-shot. This means swabbing between every shot, the same way, every time. It's all about consistancy. Bill

 

[flintlock10]

Thanks for the advise fellas, I'm playing with using olive oil for patch lube. Up 'till now, it's been spit, but being that we're looking at temps around -35f (a normal Alberta winter) a spit patch just freezes up :wink: . So time to experiment with other recipes.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Mink Oil from TOW is great in cold weather.

 

[Bill Hall]

we're looking at temps around -35f (a normal Alberta winter) a spit patch just freezes up :wink: .

Holey Moley! At that temperature, you'd think the smoke would freeze in midair, and just hang there until spring. Or the gun would go BO, instead of BOOM, cuz the sound would freeze before it got all the way out. I see what you mean by waiting for warmer weather. :shocked2: Bill

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would make sure that OO works in that cold a temperature. Its many degrees colder than the freezers used to store ice cream( -10 Degrees F.) for instance. When you get down in those temperatures( the lowest temp I have been out in is -24, with about a 20 mile per hour wind), you need to consider shooting a gun that has absolutely NO oil in the action, or even on the patching, unless its a high performance synthetic product sold for use in airplane engines at high altitude.

Mobile One makes a special synthetic oil, for instance, for aircraft use. You won't find it at your local auto-parts store( I looked), or hardware store, unless perhaps you live in parts of Alaska where nothing moves on roads. But, if you have a local airport near you, the mechanics there can either sell you some, or tell you where to get it. A half pint of the stuff might last you a lifetime.

I have read stories of hunters out hunting polar bears whose guns would not fire. The thin oil they put on the firing pin, and spring, Froze in the sub zero cold, and prevented the firing pin from hitting the primer. The guns were taken back and heated enough to allow the oils to be completely remove from the action with alcohol, and the gun was then used the next day to take a record sized Polar Bear. This story occurred before we had synthetic oils, or at least they were unknown outside the aircraft business. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

You are speaking of Mil-L-7808 or Mil-L-23699, both excellent synthetic turbine engine oils but even these get thicker at very low temperatures.

At these low temperatures powdered graphite or Molybdenum disulfide will provide some lubrication and it can be carried in a 'carrier' like alcohol to help it get down into the lock.

I should mention that graphite only works if there is moisture in the air and at the extremely low temperatures being discussed it may be more of an abrasive than a lubricant.

When all is said and done, it's probably better to have clean, unlubricated surfaces than to try to use an oil or graphite.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Jim: I bought a product called "Tri-flon", which is described as a synthetic oil with Teflon. I have used it in revolvers, and pistols, that I have carried and shot in sub-freezing temperatures. It seems to last and work well.

I have not had seriously sub-zero weather around here to test this product under those conditions. With the frostbite I suffered as a kid walking to school, and subsequent injuries to my knees, and ankles, and back, I know longer look forward to spending much time out in extremely cold weather! I have enough circulatory issues now that it just doesn't make much sense to do these things. :thumbsup:

 

[mikemeteor]

When all is said and done, it's probably better to have clean, unlubricated surfaces than to try to use an oil or graphite.

Roger that and repeat.
Used to live in Fairbanks AK where winter temps drop somewhere below -20F and stay there for a coupla months, occasionally dipping to -40F or colder.
Also fiddled with/maintained machinery, bear safety shotguns, and fishing reels in our camp warehouses on the north slope.
Learned some things fast:
1) Its hard to do with gloves on.
2) It hurts real quick with your gloves off :shocked2: .
2) Add #1 and #2 above, plus solidified oil gumming up everything, and its dang near impossible to get anything to work.