I Now Have A Brown Bess - What Do I Do Next?

[starman]

I have got to start somewhere with equipment for my Second Model Brown Bess. In surfing the net, I have found the following items. Of these items, what do I really need? What do I need that is not on the list? Thanks for all your help.
”¢ Flint ”“ what size and where to get a good one
Ӣ Flint Leather
Ӣ Musket tool
Ӣ Cleaning Pump
Ӣ Musket Worm
Ӣ Hammer Stall
Ӣ Whisk & Pick
”¢ Cartridge Box ”“ What type did the Americans use?
”¢ Powder Measurer ”“ So many to choose from ”“ what works best?
Ӣ If not using paper cartridges, what do you carry powder in and how do you measure it?
Ӣ How did most Americans carry their bayonets? Bayonet Belt Frog or Shoulder Carriage with Frog or Sheath?
Ӣ How easy is it to make your own lead rounds? What do I need to do this?

I am getting excited about shooting my Bess, but I want to start out with the right equipment and reasonably historically accurate. I can tell black powder shooting is going to become addictive!

 

[Stumpkiller]

”¢ Flint ”“ As wide as your frizzen. Black English from Track of the Wolf or other sources
Ӣ Flint Leather - 7 or 8 oz leather. Old belts, suitcases, etc.
Ӣ Musket tool - not manditory but a handy screwdriver. Watch the Timpthy Pickering style as the pick is a notorious vent reamer.
Ӣ Cleaning Pump - never had one (35 years of m/l)
Ӣ Musket Worm - definately if you plan to clean with tow. Handy otherwise. I like these with a patch loose & ahead as a breech scrubber.
Ӣ Hammer Stall - not required, though some groups and shoots do require this and a flash guard as well (I made mine out of a piece of 3/4" copper pipe).
Ӣ Whisk & Pick - whisk unnecessary (piece of patch material works better). Pick definately. A piece of copper wire is great. A large paperclip will do. I use coathanger wire heated red hot & allowed to cool slowly to kill the temper.
”¢ Cartridge Box ”“ What type did the Americans use?
I defer to G.Gedney Godwin (Sutler of Mt. Misery). Americans used a variety so if you have a group you want to hook up with check with them.
”¢ Powder Measurer ”“ So many to choose from ”“ what works best? My favorite is a turkey thigh bone with a cherry wood cap I whittled & used hide glue to mate. Antler, brass, deer dew claw - all work. Until you find the right load an adjustable is helpful.
Ӣ If not using paper cartridges, what do you carry powder in and how do you measure it? Horn - with measure as above. NEVER load directly from a horn or flask in spite of Hollywood and convenience.
Ӣ How did most Americans carry their bayonets? Bayonet Belt Frog or Shoulder Carriage with Frog or Sheath? Again, depends on the unit/group. belt frog is usually OK. Some were crossed hanging straps; cartridge box right & frog left.
Ӣ How easy is it to make your own lead rounds? What do I need to do this? Yes. Cheapest is a plumbers pot on a Coleman Stove and a mold (or mould if you're proper).

A trick I like is to find a website for a reinactment group and pick the quartermaster's brain or follow their recommendations list.
http://www.srcalifornia.com/uniforms/uindex.htm
http://243regiment.com/
http://5thpa.org/gallery.html
http://www.loyalamericanregiment.org/

 

[starman]

Stumpkiller
Thanks for your reply. Lots of good information. As to a powder measurer, what is the range of grains you would recommend the measurer be able to measure?

I have searched the internet for black powder, and so far, everywhere I can find black powder, there is a least a minimum order of 5 pounds. Is there a place you know of where I can purchase only 1 pound? If I have to purchase 5 pounds, what is the best way to store it at home?

The only place I have been able to find lead round balls in .715 and .735 is Dixie Gun Works. Do you know of any others who sell lead round balls? I eventually want to pour my own, but I have to collect the equipment. The moulds do not seem to be cheap!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Will you be just target and fun shooting or hunting? For target anything between 50 gr and 80 gr will do. For deer with round ball you'll want 75 to 90 gr . . . some go higher. For shot somewhere in the 75 to 85 gr of FFg. I like conservative loads, and a ball that is over one ounce kills very well at moderate loads. T/C makes (made?) an adjustable measure that clicked from 50 to 120 gr at 10 gr increments that would be ideal for you.

Hmmm. Mine doesn't have the hole in the finial. May after tonight. ;-)

Molds are pricy for certain but will pay for themselves in 200 or so balls if you can find free scrap lead. DO NOT buy a mold until after you try the various sized balls. If you find a size you like you can recast the other sizes later. Track of the Wolf has assorted sizes.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cate...atID=2&subID=25&styleID=58&PageSize=25&Page=3
Click me to see the large cast balls sizes at TOTW


I store my powder on the top closet shelf in an unused spare bedroom. It's not against an outside wall so it stays pretty even temp. I keep the cans right in the heavy cardboard shipping contrainer - already well marked for what it is. Right now there're about 30 cans in my "powder magazine".

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Ӣ Whisk & Pick - whisk unnecessary (piece of patch material works better).

Curious. I've never used a patch when I dump the priming. If it won't just blow away, I've only ever used a whisk to get the remaining granules.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Grenadier1758]

You really don't need to everload these muskets.

Oops, I forgot that most of us want to shoot these guns. I meant to say OVERLOAD. Too much powder is just unpleasant to shoot.

 

[jethro224]

The only place I have been able to find lead round balls in .715 and .735 is Dixie Gun Works. Do you know of any others who sell lead round balls?

Send a Private Topic to our member mouldknocker. He lives near me and is a pretty nice guy. He has all kinds of balls and bullets and I bet he'd sell you a mixed batch of assorted sizes to try out in your gun to see what it likes best.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Back to the pan brush - I have had several, from moose bristle to horsehair & deerhair. They clear a fresh prime nicely. After a bunch of shooting the pan is gooey, fouled and carboned up. I find a bit of patch material - which I also use to occasionally wipe the frizzen - will clear the prime as well as wipe the goo away.

If you're liking your whisk then by all means stick with it. I found them something that could be eliminated and I try for that wherever possible in my shooting gear.


Another PS - Every hunter, shooter or American citizen should own or at least shoot a Bess once or twice in their life. When you live with one of those it really hits you what it must have been like for a bunch of relatively untrained non-soldiers to face the best trained and most experienced troops in the world with such weapons on both sides. It was called "The Queen of the Battlefield". Rifles certainly played a part, but muskets were the mainstay.

And by the end of the war we were attacking British positions with orders of "Bayonets and unloaded muskets"! God Bless the Colonials!

 

[trent/OH]

Another PS - Every hunter, shooter or American citizen should own or at least shoot a Bess once or twice in their life. When you live with one of those it really hits you what it must have been like for a bunch of relatively untrained non-soldiers to face the best trained and most experienced troops in the world with such weapons on both sides. It was called "The Queen of the Battlefield". Rifles certainly played a part, but muskets were the mainstay.

And by the end of the war we were attacking British positions with orders of "Bayonets and unloaded muskets"! God Bless the Colonials!

I thought artillery was Queen of the Battlefield.

But I agree that everyone should shoot a Bess. It was such an important piece of world history, and especially US, Canadian, and Mexican history. Shooting a musket, and lunging a bayonet helps you understand that history.

 

[starman]

I know I know, here comes more questions!

I purchased what I thought was a Japanese made Brown Bess Second Land Pattern, but how do I know if it is Japanese or not? This Bess is, I was told, about 25 to 30 years old. The lock has TOWER on it along with a crown that has GR below the crown. On the barrel (left side) there are three broken circles nested within each other, and an S in the middle, followed by the serial number and followed by DIXIEGUNWORKS. These are the only marks I see on the Bess. The stock has 12 pins going through it beginning about 2 ½” from the end of the barrel to about 8 1/2” from the butt plate. Does anyone know for sure who made this Bess?

A bayonet came with this Bess. When I put the bayonet on the musket, it seems a little loose. What can I do, if anything, to make it fit more snugly?

How do I go about removing the barrel from the stock? This Bess has no sling swivels and I want to add them. For the front swivel, I thought it would be best to drill a hole through the stock for the screw when I could actually see where to drill and miss the barrel and ramrod.

Finally, when running a cleaning patch through the Bess, after washing it with water and a little soap, what kind of cleaning rod do you use and how do you hold the patch to the rod. I know how to do it with a modern weapon, but how do you do this with a Bess?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Stumpkiller]

It probably is a Japanese model, which was a Dixie offering and probably was back that far. They sell Pedersoli now and I think they all say "Grice" on the lock. I don't know the markings that would tell you for sure.

The bayonet can be solved by wrapping it with a 1/4" of paper and closing it in a bench vice WITH THE LUG ZIG-ZAG supported against the vice face and gradually squeeze it and check repeatedly until it is snug. DO NOT squeeze it with the lug channel up or down in the clear or it will fold on that line. Even better would be to crush a dowel inside it.

I removed my barrel once in 15 years and decided that it was unnecessary. I recommend leaving it in place so you don't split out the wood around the pins. If you must, drive the pins out with a pin punch. Try each side with a light tap and go with the side that moves easiest.

I used a tow worm and tow to clean my Bess.
Top right

You can get by with a 12 ga cleaning kit and a bit larger patch material. 12 bore is 0.729" and you're arpind 0.750". A mop and water will do it. Take the lock off, keep the muzzle lower than the breech and the vent pointed down at an old junk towel.

 

[Rifleman1776]

You already have a lot of good replies. But, since I own a 'Bess and love it, I have to respond just from habit. :wink: Short answer is: shoot it.
Mine was from a Navy Arms (Pedersoli?) kit I built in 1976. It is 11 ga. but they do vary. I have fired ball and shot from it with good results. I once did so well in a match (unusual for me) that the other competitiors actually demanded it be checked for rifling. Another time I went quail hunting with the only muzzle loader and was the only one to come home with birds. It really may end up being the funnest gun you will ever shoot. And, just holding one is a lesson in history. BTW, when I built mine I left off the sling swivels, I'm not a sling kind of guy. But, do understand after about 30 years of steady use the frizzen will need rehardening. :thumbsup:

 

[starman]

Stumpkiller

Do you take the lock off each time you clean the musket?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yes. Unless I have only fired once and will be using the flinter the next day. In that case I just clean with a patch using blackpowder solvent.

When I do a good cleaning I pull the lock and I wipe up any water that leaks out the vent and wipe the insides of the lock well with Barricade. Occasionally I wipe boiled linseed oil in the lock mortise (maybe twice annually). Be sure to use a screwdriver that fits the lockplate slots well and reinstall it snug but not gorilla tight.

 

[Many Klatch]

I just finished recleaning my Bess after returning from a week of shooting at Friendship. I probably put 40 or 50 round ball through it and 10 or 15 shot loads. I clean the gun after each days shooting, but I don't like to dismantle the lock out in the field. When I got home and unpacked I ran another couple of patches down the barrel to make sure that rust hadn't gotten in the barrel. A couple of swipes with steel wool will polish a barrel and a quick oiling will hold it.

I finally had a chance to take the lock apart and there was the usual grunge hidden in inaccessible places. A little steel wool, wiping with soft rags and a good reoiling and the lock is ready to reassemble and put aside until the next event.

For cleaning the lock in the field a quick dunk in hot water and a toothbrush in all the usual places will get about 85% of the grunge.

Many Klatch

 

[spudnut]

Hey Starman,
Ive been a Bess man for about thirty years and have had a couple Dixie bess's.They both worked well with a .715 ball and 11 gauge card(Though I just use wasp nest wadding now)Get a patch worm that threads to your ramrod,and a bullet puller.You'll have to go to the range to see how much powder your gonna like.I use 2f both for load and prime(Big lock ,Lots of sparks)When I clean her I take the lock off and scrub it in warm running water with an old toothbrush then let it drip dry then spray it out with WD40 Let er rest again then oil it with a good oil dripped into the works.
It's a nice long leaning journey and theres all kinds of web info as well as books on the subject of Bess,Welcome to the club and enjoy.Feel free to PM me anytime
Stumpkiller,I'd love to share a cup by the fire with you and talk Bess you know your stuff

 

[Steve Blancard]

There is a pretty easy way to tell for sure if its a Japanese made Bess. The trigger guard on the Brown Bess made by Miroku is somewhat flat on the bottom. The story goes that the original shipped to Japan for copying had the trigger guard dented on the bottom. They copied it exactly.

Here's a photo of a Miroku guard:


And here's a photo of a properly shaped Bess guard:


Unless someone has gone to great efforts to correct a Miroku's flat gaurd, its a pretty foolproof way to identify them. Those sold by Dixie and Navy Arms both had the same trigger guard.

 

[starman]

Ndnchf ”“ Thanks for the photos. From what the original owner of my Bess said, it is about 30 years old. Thanks to your photos, I can say it is Japanese made. My trigger guard looks exactly like the one in your picture. Is Miroku the manufacturer of the Japanese Bess?

Starman

 

[starman]

Spudnut

Being new to black powder, I have never taken a Bess lock apart. What are the correct steps in taking a lock apart? I don’t want to mess things up by not knowing something I should.

Starman

 

[Steve Blancard]

Yes, Miroku is the manufacturer. They make high grade shotguns and some of the repro Winchesters too. They generally make very high quality guns, but there have been a few exceptions over the years. They put out some cheap single shot flint pistols and hawken type rifles that were at the low end 30-40 years ago. But all 4 muskets they have put out (Brown Bess, Charleville, 1861 Springfield and 1863 type 2 Springfield) are all very high quality. I have them all as well as quite a few Italian muskets. They are generally superior to the Italians all the way around. I'm not throwing dirt at the Italians, they make some good quality guns too, but they do not have the attention to detail of the Japanese.