ID help needed for new long rifle.

[Anders L]

I just bought a new gun from a auction. Its a nice clean hunting rifle. The condition is not that good and there are som bits of wood missing. But its overall shape is fine and the lock is working. Some parts are not original but some are old replacements. Its 116 cm long.

I assume from the looks that the gun is made somewhere in north Europe.

The barrel is marked with 1809 and with a smiths mark "PIG" :grin: I wonder if anyone is familiar with these initials.

Here are som disturbing large pics:

So any suggestions?

 

[wulf]

I can't help with the ID but note that the rear
sight may be adjustable by sliding forward or
backward...

Wulf

 

[Claude Mathis]

You need to post smaller images.

Thanks

 

[Anders L]

I hope these pics are better, I was in a bit of hurry yesterday.

 

[TFoley]

Hmmm. The integral sliding patchbox, octagonal barrel, elaborate carving in the area of the cheek-piece, and generally high-quality appearance of this arm say 'civilian' to me. There is no obvious location for a bayonet, either, although at this time it may well have been of the muzzle-plug type. I have a strong feeling that it is Swedish in origin, but will have to do some work on that. Whinemeal, are there any small 'Vasa' crowns to be seen anywhere on it that might help me out? Also, please take close-ups of all the stamps and marks on this beautiful old gun. Especially on the lockplate.

tac/tak

 

[TFoley]

I meant to add that the octagon-to-round barrel is indicative of a high-quality arm.

Most Europeans also used slings on their guns, no matter whether they were rifles or shotguns. Still do, these days, of course, especially shotguns - the British do NOT put slings on shotguns.

I'll repeat that it is a very fine piece.

tac

 

[Anders L]

Thank you for your response! I collect only civilian long guns, my collection is small but slowly growing. Right now about 7 rifles and all of them have the octagonal barrels and its very common around here. Very few civilian smoothbores have all round barrels around here. The stockornaments are really common as well. We had alot of small workshops and many manufacturers of guns in Sweden, many unknown today.


The lockplate does not bear a single mark and I believe several parts have been replaces. Only the barrel and the brass ornaments have marks.

I will try to get som pics of all marks.

 

[TFoley]

Thank you for your response! I collect only civilian long guns, my collection is small but slowly growing. Right now about 7 rifles and all of them have the octagonal barrels and its very common around here. Very few civilian smoothbores have all round barrels around here. The stockornaments are really common as well. We had alot of small workshops and many manufacturers of guns in Sweden, many unknown today.


The lockplate does not bear a single mark and I believe several parts have been replaces. Only the barrel and the brass ornaments have marks.

I will try to get som pics of all marks.

Please do not put too much faith in my opinion - I have only got my ideas from looking at the collection in the Army museum in Stockholm. I am only offering you guesses based on observations.

tac

 

[ericb]

While you're at it Anders, try to get some close-ups of that rear sight; it's interesting...

Eric

 

[rickystl]

Very nice piece. This one might be tough to research. None the less, very interesting piece. Congrats!! Rick. :thumbsup:

 

[Anders L]

Thank you, I thought it was a longshot to post it here. But you never know! :haha:

Here are som closeups of the stamps!

The small stamp on the buttplate

The PIG stamp!

The 1806 mark and the really nice rear sight

 

[brubincam]

------1806 ??--------

 

[Claude Mathis]

The first character looks considerably different than the other three (thicker). It looks more like a capital letter I than a 1.

 

[ericb]

Claude, the date on my Pedersoli Barrel looks the same, i.e. the 1 looks like an I...tried to take a pic but didn't come out so hot on Cell Phone Camera...

Eric

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It is definitely a number - "1809", probably the date of the rifle's manufacture or it's date of acceptance into service.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Claude, the date on my Pedersoli Barrel looks the same, i.e. the 1 looks like an I.

Thanks. I stand (slouch?) corrected. :thumbsup:

 

[Anders L]

1809, my bad. I believe that this is not the year that it was made. The barrel should be late 18th C. The year stands for something else...

 

[Robert Egler]

Maybe its from the future, and that's 6081, not 1809 :wink:

 

[Dphar]

What caliber is it? Military use in Europe would mean its likely going to be .62 or larger. How many lands and grooves?

I am surprised it has no other markings on it if made in Europe.
The PIG is likely the barrel maker/forger.
Are there any markings on the bottom 3 flats of the barrel?
Any interior markings on the lock?
Anything in the patchbox or under the buttplate?
The 1809 might be a date and it might not.
The English were toying with rifles in infantry units from about 1740 onward and at Ft Edward in 1757 there were issue rifles in the hands of about 10 men per regiment. This experimentation with rifles continued and culminated in the adoption of the 1800 "Baker" rifle to arm rifle regiments.
But its very unlikely this is English or used by the English unless proof marks are found.
The Germans were making rifle muskets about this time but rifles of this type have bayonet fittings and are well marked as well SFAIK.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Where was it found? I should have asked this first I guess.

Dan