ID help on a 1863 Springfield

[TNBandit]

TD Bandit your eyes are seeing correct but looking at the wrong spot but it does deserve a closer inspection if correct that’s a modified or replacement barrel. I pulled out the “Rules for the Management and Cleaning of the Rifle Musket Model 1863 for The Use Of Soldiers” adopted by the War Department. A 25 page booklet copied it on line download free.
This is page 3 .

It shows a breech-screw plug. But it’s behind the nipple and hammer area. The illustrations of the barrel on the lower left shows the point it’s attached as does the arrow in the photo. View attachment 108741

Nope, not looking in the wrong spot. I'm well aware that the breech plug screws in. This particular rifle also has another seam well in front of where there should be one. Are you aware of what a patent breech is because this particular rifle has one.. Please refer to the picture just posted by the OP. Apologies for my 3rd grade attempt at drawing a circle around the area in question. Extra points for the OP knowing how to make a square box. lol

 

[TreeMan]

Is $660 a fair price? I'm thinking no at this point. As TNBandit pointed out, the stampings don't look right.
More pictures from the listing:
View attachment 108714

View attachment 108715

If you can get that for $600 you better be getting your wallet out faster than me if I had the chance. It’s well worth that regardless of its ancestry or authenticity. Buy it man!

 

[TreeMan]

Is $660 a fair price? I'm thinking no at this point. As TNBandit pointed out, the stampings don't look right.
More pictures from the listing:
View attachment 108714

View attachment 108715

Looks like a Brian haack lock and bob hoyt barrel on a rifle with some original parts and some reproduction. I have this Richmond carbine in this link done the same way. I bought it a month or so ago. They made them for NSSA competition. If it is it will have this little HV mark on the barrel. They are awesome made guns. Mine has the same line where breech and barrel meet. Custom Richmond Carbine-MM10221

 

[TNBandit]

Maybe this explains it better. This is what I believe you have. The barrel on my reproduction Springfield is made the same way. I believe the reason is it's easier to make a round barrel and add the breech section with the bolster later and screw them together. I don't know who made mine. There are absolutely no marking on it anywhere.

 

[RicM]

TN Bandit no apology ever needed this is all good informative information discussed here. Nameless Hunter on this Springfield, we are all looking at. It is a good rifle and for the right price is worth it.

Bandit I can see what you were referring to on the seem ahead of the breach. That would be a hands down not being an original or exact replacement barrel.

All these points about it not being original like someone posted here can be a big plus on negotiating a good buying price. Especially if the seller claims that it’s original, unless it’s a play on words “original looking” . Then I would really examine that rifle closely and questions the seller further seeking his views and what he knows on this rifle, as I would have my doubts on the sellers honesty until I have answers.

 

[TNBandit]

TN Bandit no apology ever needed this is all good informative information discussed here. Nameless Hunter on this Springfield, we are all looking at. It is a good rifle and for the right price is worth it.

Bandit I can see what you were referring to on the seem ahead of the breach. That would be a hands down not being an original or exact replacement barrel.

All these points about it not being original like someone posted here can be a big plus on negotiating a good buying price. Especially if the seller claims that it’s original, unless it’s a play on words “original looking” . Then I would really examine that rifle closely and questions the seller further seeking his views and what he knows on this rifle, as I would have my doubts on the sellers honesty until I have answers.

It's all good brother. We're all here to learn from eachother. I had never heard of a patent breech until I purchased my barrel from Lodgewood a couple years ago. They didn't know who made it either but it's very well made and has an excellent bore and at the time I was more concerned with having a good shooter than originality. I believe if I was looking for a nice reproduction Springfield I'd have paid what this fellow paid.

 

[TFoley]

With a bit more finagling...

 

[BadDaditood]

I’d look down the bore before buying…
I bought a sewer pipe once…

 

[toot]

Question. Because the barrel I used to build mine has a patent breech. In the circled area my old eyes almost see a seam where the barrel was made in 2 pieces. Is it my eyes or is there a seam ? Original barrels weren't made that way but some reproductions were. View attachment 108727

a great pick up. a lot of REPOP'S do have a two piece breach.

 

[toot]

remember that even a sewer pipe has a purpose to perform. many of bareles that are BAT CAVES shoot great. and many do not. it is a crap shoot.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Full shot and at the range. I really hope this helps you and others. So are you considering on it or already have it?
View attachment 108692View attachment 108693

I am at the considering stage. At this point, $660 + 27% buyer's premium + shipping from UK seems a little risky for a "1863 TYPE II" that I can't inspect personally. I did hear back from the seller...

"Thank you for your enquiry regarding the above lot. I have examined the rifle for you and am satisfied it is not a reproduction. However, I do realise that fakes and forgeries exist and I am probably not as well versed with Springfields as I am say Enfields. I have dismantled the rifle fully, and whilst some screws appear mass produced (they were machine made after all), the rifle shows signs of being heavily cleaned at some point in its life. There is a long row of pitting following the ramrod channel on the underside of the barrel and signs of cleaning on the barrel bands and lockface commensurate with the removal of rust. Unfortunately our photography department is not working this weekend so I fear there will not be enough time to provide you with the picture requests now, but the bore is bright and clean, rifled in three grooves with the lands as broad as the grooves. Most of the inspectors marks are rubbed or lightly struck and the nipple is certainly new, but I would respectfully suggest that if there is anything that you have seen or read that alarms then please do not bid as it may be difficult to rectify later."