If I was a man living on the frontier during the revolution what would I have carried?

[Coinneach]

It's a heck of a lot cheaper to shoot a rifle than a common smoothbore. Less lead by far and half the powder. Economics were the reason rifles were carried west of the seaboard in the first place. Hunting small game with shot unless absolutly neccesary was wasteful.

I disagree, the smoothbore was very common west of the American eastern seaboard, and there are numerous accounts to testify to that.

Economically the Smoothbore was cheaper to produce, in addition to the fact that there were already more of of them available second hand than new or used Rifles.

We should also remember that people in those days werent in the habit of casually shooting just for the hell of it, Powder and Lead were expensive and loads werent "high powered" as we expect nowadays.

Stalking game was considered essential to effective hunting, and long range shots werent usually acceptable, nothing like the Hollywood BS so prevalent today.

Additionally the Flintlock Smoothbore was versatile and adaptable as a Survival weapon, using both Ball, Shot and even a handful of pebbles if need be; if I was to have only 1 Firearm for Survival it would without hesitation be a Flintlock Smoothbore.

A Rifle needed careful cleaning and fouled too easily in a violent encounter, although a Meat getter was the priority in the wilderness, time wasted reloading in what could be a life or death situation would have been never far from mind, and the Smoothbore trumps a Rifle every time in that scenario.

Brown Bess like Fusils, and later North West style and French Trade gun Smoothbores dominated the scene particularly with the Indians right up until the mid 19th century, and there was no shortage of the Fur trade Mountain Men carrying Smoothbores.

 

[Coinneach]

That’s a trueism we don’t talk about a lot. Often the ‘what would you carry for survival’ thread comes up. And myself and some others come up with smooth as the best. However a ‘square load’ 70 grains of powder and an ounce of shot, can kill a rabbit sized animal, up to turkey sized. You’ll starve on a bunny a day. A turkey will feed you well one to two days. A duck will do you for a day or goose.
Thats a hundred shots of powder to a pound six and a half pounds of shot.
Seven and a half pounds total.
A deer will feed you for a week. And a hundred shots in a .50 closer to four and a half pounds.
Powder and lead were more expensive then today in terms of average income.
But….
inventories of frontier sold goods indicates a lot of shot going west…. Hmm

 

[French Colonial]

1756 Daniel Pepper, the Creeks "are daily getting in to the method of using rifle guns"
Edward Shippen 'the Indians make use of rifled guns for the most part"
David Zeizberger "the Delaware Indians use no other than rifle-barrel guns"
Washington and several other commanders lamented that there were so many men showing up for the AWI with rifles and the need to reequip them with muskets.

Its all well and good to speculate and quote one off examples but to postulate that smoothbores were the predominate and most desired firearm of the frontier is IMHO incorrect.

What was the main purpose of most of the traveling/exploration of the frontier? It was land surveying and speculation. They were NOT out for a pleasant day of hunting with friends.
A secondary part of it was gathering as many deer hides, bear and bison as you could to sell upon your return to civilization. This can be proven by how many times Indians and whites stole packs of furs from each other.

The OP asked about the frontier, not a settled area, and if I am shooting bear, bison and have Indians shooting at me at rifle distances I want to be shooting a rifle gun as well.

 

[Coinneach]

One of the critical issues often overlooked was how Powder was stored when more than a Horn full was purchased by Hunters and Trappers etc.

Some years ago I read an article in a Buckskinner magazine, the section was a regular series called "Cache of the Hollow Tree" as I recall, What I found interesting was that Powder and Lead was often sold as a combination of Lead Keg containing sealed Powder inside; and the Keg itself roughly corresponded to the amount of balls required

 

[Dave Fox]

As I recall, preparing for the expedition which ended in the Battle of Blue Lick in 1782, late in the Revolution, Kentuckian and frontier firearms expert Daniel Boone chose a smoothbore, likely a fowler, with which to be armed. For woods combat, he apparently preferred buckshot and quick reloads.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Frederick County, VA-1732 Royal prerogative saw to it that the western Valley of Virginia was parsed out to Germans from PA. The Eastern half of Frederick County was English, but the Germans were poised on the very edge of the backcountry. 1732 seems early for rifles to have made it that far out, and Germans does not automatically mean rifles, but it could, even by the 1740s, right up against the Appalachians. Commerce between Lancaster, PA and the Yadkin, all the way down to the Broad would probably have distributed all sorts of arms up and down the eastern side of the Appalachians.

Anyone know any of the genuinely confirmed and dated earliest gunsmiths in the Shenandoah?

 

[French Colonial]

As I recall, preparing for the expedition which ended in the Battle of Blue Lick in 1782, late in the Revolution, Kentuckian and frontier firearms expert Daniel Boone chose a smoothbore, likely a fowler, with which to be armed. For woods combat, he apparently preferred buckshot and quick reloads.

This is an example of using one example to make a rule. The preponderance of evidence from accounts of Indian interactions to Dodderage and others favors rifles.

In all later written accounts, Draper etc. Boone used a rifle so can we assume then that he realized his choice of a smoothbore was a mistake?

Really guys c'mon, just because you favor a smoothbore.....

 

[Cpt Flint]

My grandfather was a hunter and logger in Montana, Idaho and Washington from 1908-15. In 1911 he bought a used 1888 Winchester.
And used it until his last hunt two years before he died in ‘56
So he was shooting a seventy year old gun at the end.
I would venture that up and down the frontier you could find men with shiny new guns right off the bench, and more then one hundred year old club/oar butt gun.
Several of the known FDC had in collections today were being actively used up until cr 1900 when they were near a century and a half old
Waste nought want nought.

What is an 1888 Winchester?

 

[Cattywompuss]

What is an 1888 Winchester?

Probably an 86 bought in 1888, or a typo.

 

[Dave Fox]

This is an example of using one example to make a rule. The preponderance of evidence from accounts of Indian interactions to Dodderage and others favors rifles.

In all later written accounts, Draper etc. Boone used a rifle so can we assume then that he realized his choice of a smoothbore was a mistake?

Really guys c'mon, just because you favor a smoothbore.....

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn whether someone chose a rifle or smoothbore 250 years ago on the margins of white civilization. Just reported what Boone himself told others, specifically his son Nathan, about his choice of firearm (a smoothbore, apparently a fowler loaded with buck & ball) for what turned out to be the major combat of his long, eventful life. He also told Nathan it was the only gun with which he was sure he'd killed an Indian. (Robert Morgan, "Boone, A Biography" page 321, Algonquin Books, Chapel Hill, 2007). I spoke to the author about this personally 30 April, 2008. You can use incident however you please.

 

[Kmcmichael]

In the case of King's Mountain, the documentation is that ONLY riflemen participated... In fact, the original 1400+/- men who showed up at the initial mustering at the Cowpens was pared down to the 900 best shots who could ride well enough to make the all-night ride in the cold rain to attack Ferguson and his forces.

i would like to see that documentation. My 4th and 5th grandfather served under A.P. Hill in the militia for the entire year of 1780. Although Hill was wounded his men participated at Kings mountain. There were also Virginia regulars there. My ancestors were living near there and may have had rifles but it is unlikely that the Virginia troops did.

 

[Cattywompuss]

i would like to see that documentation. My 4th and 5th grandfather served under A.P. Hill in the militia for the entire year of 1780. Although Hill was wounded his men participated at Kings mountain. There were also Virginia regulars there. My ancestors were living near there and may have had rifles but it is unlikely that the Virginia troops did.

Is it possible you mean Ambrose Powell? Couple other famous people including both A.P Hills named after him, but neither of them were at King's Mountain on account of not having been born.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I’m not sure I’m tough enough to have lived on the frontier back then.

 

[tenngun]

What is an 1888 Winchester?

It was a .33WCF manufactured in 1888

 

[Kmcmichael]

Is it possible you mean Ambrose Powell? Couple other famous people including both A.P Hills named after him, but neither of them were at King's Mountain on account of not having been born.

Sorry, it was Col. William Hill.

 

[M. De Land]

That's just a few miles downhill of where I have been discussing. Going up and down Beech Mountain, and the adjacent ridges along what had been the border between British and Cherokee territory, and seeing what the visibility opened up to be after the leaves fell, reading up on the Overmountain communities such as the Watauga Association that were almost totally self-sustaining, even to the point of having their own gunpowder mills, convinces me that, overall, rifles would have been preferred. The kind of accuracy described by examination of the British fatalities at King's Mountain also suggests that many among the American forces were quite proficient and comfortable with shots at and beyond 200 yards... which requires much experience with one's weapon and how it handles at such ranges.

I've done some silhouette competing with an accurate .54 cal patched ball rifle at 150 and 200 yards. The ball even with 110 grain charge of 2F Goex is coming down like a meteor at 200 yards and the wind deflection is also more pronounced than I would have expected. I had no trouble hitting any of the steel targets up 150 yards but longer than that I was hard pressed to hit steel without some sighter shots first.

 

[M. De Land]

This is an example of using one example to make a rule. The preponderance of evidence from accounts of Indian interactions to Dodderage and others favors rifles.

In all later written accounts, Draper etc. Boone used a rifle so can we assume then that he realized his choice of a smoothbore was a mistake?

Really guys c'mon, just because you favor a smoothbore.....

I don't even own a smooth bore so I hardly favor them but have a cousin that swears by them as equal to a rifle out to 75 yards and well able to kill and enemy or put meat on the table to 100 yards. I think we tend to relate smooth bore accuracy to the Brown Bess of English fame but they are a whole different animal compared to a carefully worked up accuracy loaded patch ball in a well made, sighted smooth bore.

 

[Southern Bamboo]

It might depend on what side you were on for Kings Mountain. Interesting battle, as it was one of the first primarily American vs. American battles:

If this is accurate:

https://www.nps.gov/kimo/moreintroinfo.htm
Then if you were a loyalist, you probably had a smoothbore.

If you were a patriot, you probably had a rifle.

Now, the Ferguson Rifle sounds like it had promise!! 6 rounds a minute! Double a smoothbore!

https://www.nps.gov/kimo/learn/historyculture/ferguson-rifle.htm
Here one was found in Greensboro...

https://greensboro.com/revolutionar...cle_600b71d4-69e1-5e48-946b-42abac4f4ae1.html
If it were me, I'd go rifle... but I do like those smoothbores...

I've been driving by this place for over 30 years (wife's family settled the Martinsville - Blue Ridge/Roanoke area with a kings grant) and never knew this!

Let us know what you decide!

 

[French Colonial]

The OP's question was of an average man living west of the appalachians in the time period. So.... that would mean what was the average firearm that was predominate in the area. Were there smoothbores, yes, but....

Read the documentation that is available and there is only one conclusion.

 

[.36Rooster]

I once read a book about a 14 year old boy, who like all the other male settlers in that area, marched from a cabin in the backwoods, with what amounted to his family gun, a gifted tomahawk, and a sack of food....to join that fight.

i know smoothbores were extremely common for these families for their functionality in terms of being able to use both ball and shot, so i don't think a smoothbore would be that far off, as most were using their own personal guns, which a heck of a lot of those had tended to be smoothbore in that region.