Ignition Woes

[JimKim]

I bought a CVA Hawken. I got it CHEAP. It took a good bit of tinkering to get it to shoot. At first the hammer was slow. That was easy to fix. It just took cleaning and oiling. Next the barrel had a very rough patch of rust about halfway down. I tried every remedy I could find online, until finally using distilled vinegar to "eat it". I can now load it and it gets perfect ignition from the caps, but unless I put a pinch(I'm talking just a few kernels) of powder in the drum, it doesn't set the powder(tried Grafs, Goex, and Swiss) off. I'm using CCI No. 11 caps. I've never had trouble(always had revolvers) with them before. Did they go cheap or do you think it is another issue. I have noticed the priming compound in these seems to be very thin. Oh, the nipple and drum are clear. I can pull the screw and shine a light through it and it lights up the whole bore. Thanks for any help.

Also, I ordered some paper caps and I will be augmenting the CCI caps with the paper caps this week.

 

[Antelope Pete]

I'm not familiar with the CVA system but with traditional systems there should be powder under the nipple after loading. Pull the nipple and check for that. Also, RWS caps are quite a bit stronger than CCI.

 

[ETipp]

Did you check to ascertain the hole in the nipple is clear and of the proper size? If the nipple is not the proper size and/or application it can make a difference. I went through this with my CVA Hawkin.

What patch lube are you using?

No petroleum products in the system anywhere?

Also, It sounds as if there could still be a little restriction in the flash channel.

 

[springfield art]

Did you check to ascertain the hole in the nipple is clear and of the proper size? If the nipple is not the proper size and/or application it can make a difference. I went through this with my CVA Hawkin.

What patch lube are you using?

No petroleum products in the system anywhere?

Also, It sounds as if there could still be a little restriction in the flash channel.

I believe many neglect to get the flash channel truly clean each time; "out of sight, out of mind" kind of thing. I've been guilty as well.

 

[n.h.schmidt]

You should not have this problem. I have many CVA rifles and shoot them regular. Almost always with pyrodex and can shoot a whole match without any failures . With GOEX bp I have to clean out the drum after five to six shots. Yes , I use the clean-out screw or I would have to pull out the nipple instead. Even then breaking out the BP crud would be harder to do.. Maybe your CCI caps are too weak. If you fire one off pointing the gun at some grass,,you should see the grass move. I do use Spitfire nipples for my guns. For several years I have been using my own caps and priming. I have used paper caps and they will likely not do much for you.

 

[JimKim]

Did you check to ascertain the hole in the nipple is clear and of the proper size? If the nipple is not the proper size and/or application it can make a difference. I went through this with my CVA Hawkin.

What patch lube are you using?

No petroleum products in the system anywhere?

Also, It sounds as if there could still be a little restriction in the flash channel.

A 1/32" drill slides through it. Should I drill it out with a 0.040" bit?
When I clean, I use boiling water(I use a trough heater to boil it) and Dawn. I pull the access screw. I use a swab or jag and patch and pump until clear...ish water comes out. Then I switch to clean water and pump several times, and watch for dark water. I clean the nipple with a pick, and use the 1/32 drill as a scraper. Before I go to shoot it, I pull the access screw and check it again. I also shine a light through the drum and look down the barrel to make sure I can see the flame path. I used Crisco at first. Now I'm trying lanolin. I was thinking of impregnating the patches with graphite powder or molybdenum disulfide next, but I haven't made up my mind yet. I'm waiting on a shipment of beeswax now. I was thinking of trying beeswax olive oil and a little molyB. I think I covered everything. Please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors.

 

[JimKim]

I'm not familiar with the CVA system but with traditional systems there should be powder under the nipple after loading. Pull the nipple and check for that. Also, RWS caps are quite a bit stronger than CCI.

I hate to assume anything, but I assume mine is like this. I have a button type breech plug. I don't believe that would make much of a difference.

 

[ETipp]

A 1/32" drill slides through it. Should I drill it out with a 0.040" bit?
When I clean, I use boiling water(I use a trough heater to boil it) and Dawn. I pull the access screw. I use a swab or jag and patch and pump until clear...ish water comes out. Then I switch to clean water and pump several times, and watch for dark water. I clean the nipple with a pick, and use the 1/32 drill as a scraper. Before I go to shoot it, I pull the access screw and check it again. I also shine a light through the drum and look down the barrel to make sure I can see the flame path. I used Crisco at first. Now I'm trying lanolin. I was thinking of impregnating the patches with graphite powder or molybdenum disulfide next, but I haven't made up my mind yet. I'm waiting on a shipment of beeswax now. I was thinking of trying beeswax olive oil and a little molyB. I think I covered everything. Please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors.

I really do not know off of the top of my head, as to the proper size of hole in the nipple. I don’t have anything handy to measure mine with.

In terms of the flash hole; it sounds like your cleaning regimen is sound. However, I’m wondering if there may be a smaller chunk of rust in there that impedes total spark from reaching the powder.

A new replacement nipple can be had from TOTW for about $7.00. It’s always a good idea to have at least one spare anyway. That’s what I would do.

In the meantime, while you’re waiting for the new nipples to arrive, you could try to ream out the hole a little in the original nipple. That might tell the story as to if there’s rust in the flash channel or perhaps the nipple is not the correct one for your CVA.

 

[Gtrubicon]

Have you checked to make sure you have the right nipple for your rifle? If your nipple is to long in the threads it can be an issue.

 

[Ed C.]

At the risk of being repetitious I would do the following: Make sure the breech is clean. It may be reduced in diameter to about 3/8" in which case you can get a scraper from TOTW and or use a 3/8 brush to clean it. Clean the drum firing chamber with a pipe cleaner through the access screw you have pulled. Pull and clean the nipple. If that 1/32 (.031") drill bit slides through it easily, it should be good. My nipples are just over .040". Make sure your powder is good, not clumping. CCI 11's are fine unless they have been compromised somehow. Tilt and tap the gun after you have poured in the powder. Are you getting a good hit with the hammer? A patch just dampened with windex, dawn and water, or ballistol, even spit, are easy tried and proven patch lubes. Plenty of others which you can use once you get that gun to fire. If the above doesn't work I am lost. Good luck!

 

[JimKim]

Have you checked to make sure you have the right nipple for your rifle? If your nipple is to long in the threads it can be an issue.

It doesn't protrude into the bolster.

 

[Gtrubicon]

Try putting a powder charge down the barrel as you normally would do, pull the nipple and see if you have any powder in your bolster.

 

[Antelope Pete]

I hate to assume anything, but I assume mine is like this. I have a button type breech plug. I don't believe that would make much of a difference.

That's interesting. A patent style breech and a drum. Mine has the flat bottom breech, but either way there should be powder in the drum under the nipple when powder is poured in. As was mentioned earlier tap the lock side with your fingers and that should move the powder into the drum.

 

[pat i.]

First thing I'd do is try a different cap or a different lot of the CCI. Next a different nipple. Could also try spit for lube as a test. If you're wiping every shot or two you might be plugging the breach with the crisco or lanolin when you push the cleaning patch down. Is the cap popping every fall of the cock? Does the first shot or two always go off?

 

[JimKim]

First thing I'd do is try a different cap or a different lot of the CCI. Next a different nipple. Could also try spit for lube as a test. If you're wiping every shot or two you might be plugging the breach with the crisco or lanolin when you push the cleaning patch down. Is the cap popping every fall of the cock? Does the first shot or two always go off?

The cap pops every time. No, the first shot does not go off every time, unless I manually pour powder in the bolster. I just tried it again, and it fired three times in a row. I charged it, and tilted it to the side and tapped the bolster with a small rawhide mallet. That jarred powder into the bolster. I may try three F instead of two F tomorrow. Maybe I won't have to do that with it.

 

[JimKim]

Thank you for your help.

 

[Ed C.]

The cap pops every time. No, the first shot does not go off every time, unless I manually pour powder in the bolster. I just tried it again, and it fired three times in a row. I charged it, and tilted it to the side and tapped the bolster with a small rawhide mallet. That jarred powder into the bolster. I may try three F instead of two F tomorrow. Maybe I won't have to do that with it.

That is telling you that you have some sort of restriction or build up of crud in your breech plug or bolster. 3f may give better results but that is only a way around the problem, not a solution which is to get those channels completely open and clean.

 

[Steve Wagner]

Jim, those like Ed C. telling you that you have some kind of flash channel constriction, sound like they are on the right track to me. All I have ever used is cci #11 standards. And that is with t-7, 2 or 3f and no ignition problems in 2 Traditions Hawkens.
T-7 is harder to ignite than black, so unless your caps are just plain bad, [which is possible] I doubt they are the source of your problem. I believe the CVA and Tradition Hawkens are pretty much the same rifle [Ardessa, unless the earlier US made CVA's are a different design. Chime in experts.] I purchased a CVA on this forum, for a friend, and it looked identical to my rifles.
Boring out your nipple flash hole to .040 might be on the iffy side of safety for that rifle. I think the standard nipple for the rifle starts around .028 and after .034 you may start to see the hammer ending up on half cock [or even full] after firing. This is a red flag that you are wandering into "no bueno" territory, and it is time for a new nipple. Otherwise, you may damage your lock.
Some serious scrubbing of that flash channel from drum to chamber, with very hot soapy water, is probably in order, along with some pipe cleaner work with a lapping compound, and/or whatever else the gurus on here recommend. Dawn is supposed to be good. I purchased the Birchwood Casey soap as a newby and it works well too. It should probably just be called "Red Dawn". Refer to the "cleaning with a bucket and pumping hot water with a jag and patch" threads on the forum.
Since you found a rust spot in your bore, you shouldn't doubt there would be the same problem where you can't easily find it, in your flash channel. When you do get it cleaned and firing properly, lube that flash channel liberally, after cleaning, with the rust inhibitor of your choice, and store muzzle down. I like squirting a touch of CLP in there and blowing it throughout with an air nozzle from my compressor. When I follow this protocol, CLP does not leave a gummy residue that I have to clean out before shooting again Good luck. SW