I'm about done.

[lakota]

I bought a used TVM Tennesse rifle in .45 cal in the spring of 2009. I have been shooting this gun almost exclusively since I got it. I am pretty well fed up with this rifle. I shoot and shoot and fiddle with lubes and patches and precut patches and cutting at the muzzle and powder charges and the only significant improvement I have seen is having gone from not being able to hit a piece of paper at 50 yards to being able to hit a piece of paper in haphazard groups. I would never even consider hunting with it. This year will be the second season I sit out because of it. At first I thought it was me but now I am begining to think the gun may be part of the problem. I feel solid on my shots and dont feel like I am flinching like I did when I first started shooting it.

 

[lakota]

here are 2 targets from today. both shot 50 yards offhand braced against a post. I have heard people call the the barricade position.
This first target is 5 shots 70 grains goex 3f
pillow ticking cut at the muzzle. moose snot lube

this one is same distance and shooting position only with 80 grains 3f 6 shots. one shot a complete miss:

 

[lakota]

here are some recovered patches:

these ones look good:

Not sure what is going on with these. It looks like powder is caked on them:

 

[lakota]

Are my expectations unreasonable? I would think that having the vast majority of my shots land in the black would be acceptable but that only happens very occasionaly.

I shoot 5 shots and then wipe. I wipe the pan out after every shot. I dont experience many hangfires. Everything on this gun seems tight. no bent sights that I can see. I get tons of shots out of a flint. The one I changed out today had to be going on 80.

Any suggestions for improving?
My dreams of flintlock deer hunting and getting a smoothbore flinter to turkey hunt with are going up in smoke.

 

[Swtodd]

Looks better at the lower powder charge, you've tried 65gr and 60gr? Or is the 70gr load the best you get?

steve

 

[Keb]

1. Don't shoot off a post.
2. shoot closer range.

Just my 2¢ but I'd not try to work up a load that way.
Shoot at 20 yds to start. Get a group there then move out. Use cross sticks at least. A bench would be better. Hold the gun against your shoulder like you are shooting it off hand. Only use 1 hand to hold it.
Start with 45 gr FFF & I'd suggest spit patches but that's just me. Shoot 5, look at yer target... You know the drill. Don't go out to 50 yds til yer happy with shorter distances.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

One way to know for sure that it is not you, is to let some one else who is very experienced in shooting flintlocks shoot it ... Got any clubs around?

Of course there may be a reason it was for sale before ... How does the crown look

 

[Mike Brooks]

Couple things, first , too much powder for a .45. Second, take your barrel pins out and make sure the lugs are slotted.

 

[jamesthomas]

What he says. I think yer using too heavy a load. I'm using 65 grns 3fff in my .50 cal. Come back in to 25 yrds and start at around 40 to 50 grns. Once ya get a good group(should be close to one ragged hole). Then go out to 35 yards then 50 yrds. Use the bench and a set of sand bags to hold the rifle steady. Good luck!!. If ya still don't like it I'll take it off yer hands for a $100.00. :grin:

 

[lakota]

Couple things, first , too much powder for a .45. Second, take your barrel pins out and make sure the lugs are slotted.

Are you saying they should be slotted as in a horizontal or vertical slot? I havent had the barrel out in a while but I am pretty sure they only have a hole drilled large enough through through them to accomodate the pins. I will take it apart and confirm.

 

[lakota]

Dont get me wrong-I love shooting flint. Its really all I care to shoot anymore but I am not getting anywhere accuracy wise.

I have tried powder charges from 55-80 grs Goex 3F and shot from 25 to 50 yards. My 25 yard accuracy is pretty decent. I was thinking of trying 2F out of desperation.

I also tried transitioning to a sitting on the ground leaning against the bench shooting while resting my elbows on my knees-something that might be closer to actual hunting positions and I wasnt even able to hit the target.

 

[Zonie]

I'm glad you have overcome your flinch but I suspect some of it is still there.

When I say flinch in this context I am not speaking of a visible jerk of your body. Just the tensing of your muscles. It may not even be felt by you.
It doesn't take much. Even pulling the trigger to hard or too fast can spread a group out like the ones shown on those targets at 50 yards.

If it is possible, you really need to find a bench and something solid to support the forearm of the rifle. I know. You won't be hunting this way but what we are doing here is to find out just how accurate your rifle is.

With you sitting behind the bench, resting the forearm on something, take your aim keeping your focus ON THE FRONT SIGHT.
Do NOT look AT the target. Look at the front sight and make sure it is properly aligned with the notch in the rear sight.

While your doing this focusing, keep the center of the target in mind. It will be somewhat "fuzzy" but you will be able to see it clearly enough to put the front sight in the middle of it.

While looking at the front sight, the target will seem to be moving back and forth. This is natural and it is impossible to stop, even for master sharpshooters. Don't worry about it but do try to minimize the movement. Just don't "tense up" while your doing this minimizing.

Then, as the sights are closely aligned with the center of the fuzzy target, slowly increase your fingers trigger pressure until the gun fires.
Do NOT try to force the trigger pull. Let it do its own thing.
Stay totally relaxed while you are doing this.

If my suspicions are correct, that rifle will easily group 3" at 50 yards off of the rest if you just 'let it do its thing" without trying to force it to do "your" thing.

If I'm right, and the gun actually does make some good groups, you will know for certain where the problem is.

Now, for shooting off hand, using a support to help stabilize the gun is good.
The problem is your whole body will be moving from side to side and even up and down.
Trying to stop this movement is almost impossible so here again, concentrate on the front sight, keeping it aligned with the rear sight notch and the fuzzy target.

I think if you try these things you will find that your rifle and you will do just fine.

I'm sure you've heard many of us say, "That gun shoots better than I do."
It is a true statement for everyone I know. Even those guys who shoot in the high "90's" (all shots inside the 9 ring) will be the first to admit that they are the "weak link".



When taking a shot

 

[lizz]

I would agree with the others here.
A good solid rest to start with and maybe start at 25 yrds and work your way out to 50.
I also find that a smaller target helps me, less to look at.
Sometimes you may have to try different lubes.
I just use spit and has worked well for years.
Good luck.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Reduce your powder charge back to 50 grains of FFFg powder. Now, use an OP Wad down that barrel to act as a firewall, to protect the patches and ball. You don't say what thickness of patching fabric you are using. Without that information, we can't even guess why the groups are so open at only 50 yards. The patches in the lower picture that show black marks in the center of the patches tell me that you are burning the fabric. That is way too much powder for a .45 IMHO. 65 grains will give you about 2000 fps. MV, for gosh sakes.

I agree with the others. Have another Good flintlock shooter shoot the gun. If you are flinching(as I also suspect), it will become obvious when you compare his group to your own.

Borrow or buy a chronograph to help you figure out what is working and what isn't. My chronograph told me my gun was a lot more accurate than even I thought, just by using an OP wad behind the PRB. I am shooting 65 grains of FFg powder in my .50 cal. rifle. My "hunting" load is "only" 75 grains of powder, but it drives the RB completely through the chest of a deer standing broadside.

 

[hanshi]

I agree with Zonie; I don't think all the problem is with the rifle. Scattered shots like that usually indicate flinching. Make sure the tang bolt is snug. By "slotting", Mike was talking about relieving them parallel with the barrel. Not much, now, just to get them very slightly oval. Get help first about your technique before you remove the barrel again.

 

[brubincam]

I know a guy that bought a semi-custom rifle (not mentioning maker out of respect) 50 cal flint 42 in barrel full stock--bran new--couldn't hit any kind of group no how--several people tried shooting it --no groups--fooled with it abt a year--finally got ahold of maker and explained the problem--maker put another barrel on it and it is a great shooter now--((BAD BARREL))

 

[roundball]

Your powder charges are not too much for a 45cal at all.
I've used 90 and 100grns Goex in multiple .45cals for my deer load over the past 18 years in T/C, GM, and Rice barrels.
Cloverleafs at 50yds from all of them...1+7/8" to 2+3/4" groups at 100yds.

Another small by significant thing to check that drove me crazy one range trip is the tang bolt...make sure its tight.
I'd run mine in finger tight then got distracted or something and forgot to put the screwdriver to it...next range trip shots were spraying all over a paper plate at 50yds.

 

[tg]

I am certain that the advise you have been given to get closer and use a good solid rest will quickly eliminate or condem the gun as the problem probably the former good luck and enjoy the journey

 

[majg1234]

I agree with several of the experts here,benching the gun and lowering the charge will do a couple of things,decrease the possibility of excess movement and help with the flinching.90-100gr of powder in in 45 is a lot but in the right rifle in the right hands can be OK.I've used that amount in caplock 45's with very good result.the recomendation to let some one familiar with flinters shoot it is good tonce had a hunting buddy with a 300winmag,he traded scopes, mounts,stocks,had it glass bedded etc and was about to sell the whole rig.We went to the range one day and he shot 5 shots @ 75yds you couldn't cover with a laundry basket.My other friend and I both shot it @ 100yds 5 shots each and the groups could be covered with a 1/2 dollar.Moral of the story is like others have said it could be a flinch induced poor result.If it's not you'll be able to find out following advice given here.good luck and don't give up just yet!!!!

 

[Trench]

You have got to get that rifle on a bench and on a rest. When I first got my .36, I could get one inch groups off the bench. When I started to try doing practical field shooting, I was horrible at the same range. I had some principles of marksmanship to work on at that point.

You need that bench to get confidence that the rifle shoots where you aim. Then, go from there.