In search of a foraging gun

[Mitch97]

I'm looking for help on my next purchase. I've long been into the idea of hunting small game with a muzzleloader but I'm stuck on what I should spend my hard earned money on. Additionally, I'm unsure if a flintlock or percussion would suit me better. Smoothbore is a must, but other than that I have no real idea what would best fit the bill for this small game/foraging gun.

I've looked at a few different 1842 Springfield's (which I'm drawn to for some reason). I'd also love to get into flintlocks, but I just don't have the confidence to get one running correctly and keep it that way. (And at the price I'm looking at they are mainly Indian made) The sxs pedersolis are just out of my reach price wise and are (from what I've heard) unable to fire ball without damaging barrels.

Ideally I'd keep the price in the $750-1,000 range. Does anyone know what I should be looking for, things I'm missing, or just general input?

 

[stank]

Personally I would look for a 20 gauge trade gun in flintlock. If you look around for a bit you should be able to find something in your price range. Keep an eye open on this site and on gunbroker. Good luck

 

[bigted]

Were it me again, My first smoke beltcher would be a side by side in 20 gauge. 12 gauge would be my second choice again in a double.

That nonsense about being unwise to shoot a bare or patched ball in a good double is just that ... nonsense. Ball accuracy is good to great in the game department. Around 50 yards and possible a small bit further is totally within reason. My ideal would be to discover which barrel is closest to point of aim and use it for your ball barrel and then develop a good shot load in the other.

Being mostly percussion cap guns, they are very reliable and easy to shoot.

As to your price? Sounds like your budget will purchase a very nice well made double whereas a fair fouler in good condition is going to probably be over what you stated ... having said this a thousand might purchase a fair fouler but I think I would rather have a snazzy navy arms, Pedersoli of equal value and great doubles that are very easy to load, shoot and maybe THE most versatile gun of them all ... very easy to maintain and clean.

Any birds, rabbits, squirrel or deer sized game can drop into the pot with this versatile weapon AND is fun to shoot clays either on the ground or tossed into the air.

There is my 2 cents and worth every penny of what ya paid for it.

 

[tenngun]

Loyal arms sells the French fusil de cahase in flintlock with a 42” barrel. It’s not the best copy and with a teak stock is heavier then the originals but good gun for the price.
They have a North west trade gun with a 36” barrel. I find those too straight for me but is made for ease of use.
They have several musket carbines. Both in French and English design ( America musket was a French design)
Muskets were made for battle and are beefier then the other two, and with the teak heavier then originals
They are very bright, but it’s easy to calm them down a bit
They also make guns of the civil war. These are percussion and smooth for import reasons.
The big flintlocks are the easiest to master

 

[Mitch97]

Were it me again, My first smoke beltcher would be a side by side in 20 gauge. 12 gauge would be my second choice again in a double.

That nonsense about being unwise to shoot a bare or patched ball in a good double is just that ... nonsense. Ball accuracy is good to great in the game department. Around 50 yards and possible a small bit further is totally within reason. My ideal would be to discover which barrel is closest to point of aim and use it for your ball barrel and then develop a good shot load in the other.

Being mostly percussion cap guns, they are very reliable and easy to shoot.

As to your price? Sounds like your budget will purchase a very nice well made double whereas a fair fouler in good condition is going to probably be over what you stated ... having said this a thousand might purchase a fair fouler but I think I would rather have a snazzy navy arms, Pedersoli of equal value and great doubles that are very easy to load, shoot and maybe THE most versatile gun of them all ... very easy to maintain and clean.

Any birds, rabbits, squirrel or deer sized game can drop into the pot with this versatile weapon AND is fun to shoot clays either on the ground or tossed into the air.

There is my 2 cents and worth every penny of what ya paid for it.

I had a chance at a navy arms sxs a few years back for about $500. Kicking myself ever since on not grabbing it. They seem to come up occasionally - if I could find one now in that price range I'd probably snatch it. Like you said, the sxs percussion guns seem to be the easiest to get into.

My only black powder long arm is a Pennsylvania long rifle made by traditions (cap). I love that gun and how reliable it has proven for me, but being in .50 it doesn't get a trip to the woods as often as I'd like. My family eats deer meat almost exclusively and I don't take any chances with hang fires or misses unless it muzzleloader season or I've already filled the freezer for the year.

I suppose a rock lock would be a fun venture, but the learning curve on those is intimidating to a guy with a young family and 60+ hour work week.

 

[Ohio.75]

I don't know the 1842 Springfield, but is there a good reason not to get it? If you go with something else and aren't 100% pleased, you may wish you'd have gotten it instead regardless.

 

[hawkeye2]

The Springfield 42 in original or cut down versions would work but they aren't as handy as a fowling piece. The "Bannerman" smoothbores based on the 61 and 63 Springfields are lighter and handle better. They are reasonably easy to find and don't have a lot of value. Neither of the aforementioned match a shotgun, single barrel or side by side, but if they appeal to you go for it.

 

[Mitch97]

I don't know the 1842 Springfield, but is there a good reason not to get it? If you go with something else and aren't 100% pleased, you may wish you'd have gotten it instead regardless.

I guess I'm trying to figure out a manufacture. I wonder if the Indian versions are an acceptable substitute.

 

[CyrusP]

Just yesterday, I picked up a used Pedersoli 12 gauge SxS at Dixons in PA for your starting price. It’s an excellent gun. See the thread nearby. They are out there. I too want a flintlock smoothbore trade/fusil/etc some day.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm looking for help on my next purchase. I've long been into the idea of hunting small game with a muzzleloader but I'm stuck on what I should spend my hard earned money on. Additionally, I'm unsure if a flintlock or percussion would suit me better. ...
Ideally I'd keep the price in the $750-1,000 range. Does anyone know what I should be looking for, things I'm missing, or just general input?

Dixie Gun Works Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket Kit
You can take anything from birds to squirrel, to turkey, to moose with the thing.

LD

 

[Coinneach]

I guess I'm trying to figure out a manufacture. I wonder if the Indian versions are an acceptable substitute.

My advice....try to avoid them.
They might look acceptable on the outside, but anyone who's removed a Lock (Percussion or Flint) will be horrified at the Lock internals.
Additionally their Barrels usually arent proofed ( thereby questionable Breech plugs) or of a standard caliber, Touchholes are often over size and Drum & Nipples coursely made and fitted.

Here in Australia Indian made ML's are generally banned from live firing because theres been too many problems with them; but theyre considered acceptable for Re-enactment and firing Blank charges.

Indian made ML's are a cottage industry production, lacking the quality control we in the west expect to find in a reproduction firearm, theyre not even worth tinkering with or attempting to upgrade.

 

[Mitch97]

My advice....try to avoid them.
They might look acceptable on the outside, but anyone who's removed a Lock (Percussion or Flint) will be horrified at the Lock internals.
Additionally their Barrels usually arent proofed ( thereby questionable Breech plugs) or of a standard caliber, Touchholes are often over size and Drum & Nipples coursely made and fitted.

Here in Australia Indian made ML's are generally banned from live firing because theres been too many problems with them; but theyre considered acceptable for Re-enactment and firing Blank charges.

Indian made ML's are a cottage industry production, lacking the quality control we in the west expect to find in a reproduction firearm, theyre not even worth tinkering with or attempting to upgrade.

That's my hang up with them. Some say they are OK, others say they are great, and some say they can be dangerous. I'd rather save my money and get a entry level flinter or a nice navy arms sxs. I suppose if I could find a used armi sport or pedersoli 1842 for a not unreasonable price then I'd go with that.

 

[andy52]

Were it me again, My first smoke beltcher would be a side by side in 20 gauge. 12 gauge would be my second choice again in a double.

That nonsense about being unwise to shoot a bare or patched ball in a good double is just that ... nonsense. Ball accuracy is good to great in the game department. Around 50 yards and possible a small bit further is totally within reason. My ideal would be to discover which barrel is closest to point of aim and use it for your ball barrel and then develop a good shot load in the other.

Being mostly percussion cap guns, they are very reliable and easy to shoot.

As to your price? Sounds like your budget will purchase a very nice well made double whereas a fair fouler in good condition is going to probably be over what you stated ... having said this a thousand might purchase a fair fouler but I think I would rather have a snazzy navy arms, Pedersoli of equal value and great doubles that are very easy to load, shoot and maybe THE most versatile gun of them all ... very easy to maintain and clean.

Any birds, rabbits, squirrel or deer sized game can drop into the pot with this versatile weapon AND is fun to shoot clays either on the ground or tossed into the air.

There is my 2 cents and worth every penny of what ya paid for it.

^^^^^^
X2

 

[4575wcf]

I have been pining after a double barrel flinter every since I was a teenager reading about Joseph Manton, Durs Egg and the rest of the makers that produced them. The Pedersoli version is priced above my pain threshold, so I will have to build it should I ever own one. Recently retired, I own a first edition copy of Brockway's book "Recreating the Muzzle-Loading Shotgun" and I thumb through it every now and again to keep myself inspired. Currently I am working away on some early breechloading side by sides, but it is not much of a stretch to getting out the front loaders.

 

[Mitch97]

I'm still back and forth on one barrel or two. Newtewsmoke had a nice dbl brl listed on the ads page, but he says it's spoken for now. I guess an attraction to a mono barrel is that you get a single sight plain for shooting PRB and could theoretically stretch the gun more for large game. I'm in Eastern woods though, and 50 yard or less shots are the norm.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I'm looking for help on my next purchase. I've long been into the idea of hunting small game with a muzzleloader but I'm stuck on what I should spend my hard earned money on. Additionally, I'm unsure if a flintlock or percussion would suit me better. Smoothbore is a must, but other than that I have no real idea what would best fit the bill for this small game/foraging gun.

I've looked at a few different 1842 Springfield's (which I'm drawn to for some reason). I'd also love to get into flintlocks, but I just don't have the confidence to get one running correctly and keep it that way. (And at the price I'm looking at they are mainly Indian made) The sxs pedersolis are just out of my reach price wise and are (from what I've heard) unable to fire ball without damaging barrels.

Ideally I'd keep the price in the $750-1,000 range. Does anyone know what I should be looking for, things I'm missing, or just general input?

First thing to decide is…what appeals to you? Do you like military muskets, or civilian styled fowlers or fusils?

My first flintlock was a Pedersoli Brown Bess carbine kit gun.

That little Bess has taken 2 deer, piles of rabbits & squirrels, lots of ducks and a nice load of geese. I’ve hunted pheasants in eastern Colorado, quail in Kansas and Oklahoma. My goodness, had I known how much fun that gun would be, I’d have bought it…decades earlier.

Smoothbores are so versatile, solid projectiles and shot. Bottom line, it really doesn’t matter which one you choose…they will all perform and do it well. I currently have…well several smoothbores. It’s a completely different dimension to this sport of shooting black powder. I personally treat them all as being shotguns…if I’m going to send a lead ball down range I want to know exactly where it’s going to hit…not approximately where it’s going to hit.

So I say familiarize yourself with what’s available. Go to some good rendezvous and handle these guns. One day you’ll pick one up and know…”This is the one…”

 

[Pete453]

Mitch, a little advice from a frugal guy. Im not cheap, i look for the most value for my money. My suggestion, if i may, is look for a good quality used gun. One with a best quality lock. The lock is the heart of a flintlock and can make all the difference in the world when it comes to learning to run one. It makes for a shorter learning curve and much less frustration. I hope you go flint, and have as much enjoyment as ive had with mine

 

[Nuthatch]

For a tad more cash, you can get a Pedersoli 20 ga trade gun. As it happens, I'm waiting for mine to arrive.

I've been using a .50 smoothbore percussion. It slings lead shot fine but bismuth has been more of a challenge. Round ball is barely any different than with a rifled barrel. I don't think my target knows the difference. At 60 gr homemade powder, it hits right about 1" high at 25 yards for a "small" game load. With about 80 gr, it hits about 2-3" high -- perfect for big game. For fun, I took a 100 yard shot, aiming at the top of a 10" circle. The shot landed about 3" right and 1" low of the center. It's really quite amazing what a smoothie can do. I've been wanting to try out some clays with it but whenever I go out with the family, I have to throw clays for myself as neither my wife nor my boys can use a thrower very well.

For real simplicity, cost, accuracy, versatility and weather resistance, it's hard to beat a percussion. Flintlock is different, for sure. I only picked up my first flintlock this year and it's a bit of a learning curve and I don't think it will ever be as fast to ignite as percussion. Caps can be tough to find these days but if you pick up a cap-making kit and work at getting your production down, you can make up a batch of 20 or so pretty easily in about 30 min. I know some people with more experience than I can make their flinters do just as well. But that level of skill will take time AND money. There's a reason why people made the switch back then. Plus, with a percussion, you can use substitute powders. Flintlock MUST have real black powder. My percussion gun with homemade caps and homemade powder, in reasonable humidity, is getting darned near some unmentionables now. Took some time to get it sorted, though.

Having a second shot is nice. But I prefer the weight and handling of a single barrel instead of two. I tend to hike in several miles and hunt all day so weight may matter more to me than a lot of others. If you don't go in very far or don't hunt very long each day, it probably won't matter to you.

Just some of my thoughts -- use or disregard as needed to suit you. Good luck.

 

[Mitch97]

Been busy with work and life. Got hit with a cold this week and just now having enough time to get back to this thread.

I ended up going with a Pedersoli Brown Bess carbine - I looked at several percussion pedersolis SXS, though. The deciding factor for me ended up being that I wanted to dive into black powder deeper than just dipping my toe. I have several older SXS's that must use hand-loaded cartridges (Damascus Steel) and I can't justify another SXS at this time.

I got the Bess carbine from a user on here and it throws incredible sparks - I've got flints and real black powder on order. I think going with a large production lock like Pedersoli's Brown Bess is truly the best beginner flintlock. The smaller flintlocks that I've messed with in the past are far more finicky and didn't throw sparks like this one. I feel very confident that this lock will last me years and be relatively problem free.

I appreciate everyone that has taken the time to express their thoughts and knowledge on this subject.

 

[CyrusP]

I’m envious. I’d love one of those some day myself. Enjoy the heck out of it.