Incised carving question

[Comfortably_Numb]

You aren't going to get anymore curl to "pop" than what's already there. If you want good curl you have to pay for it.
Forget extra dye in the incised lines, you're wasting your time. What ever stain you use will automatically darken the lines. And for Pete's sake put this brass dust idea out of your head.

 

[Psycho Mike]

You aren't going to get anymore curl to "pop" than what's already there. If you want good curl you have to pay for it.
Forget extra dye in the incised lines, you're wasting your time. What ever stain you use will automatically darken the lines. And for Pete's sake put this brass dust idea out of your head.

Yes, CN, what's in the wood is what's in the wood for curl /figure....but as you full well know, how you finish it will determine whether it stands out, is muddied or gets covered up. I'm going to dye my stock to try to highlight it rather than cover it up.

As for the carving, I'm still figuring out how I want to handle it, especially with the lighter overall finish I'm looking at.

As I've said before, I'm not out to emulate a finish that has darkened for ~250 years, but rather something more along the lines of what "new" would have been...and I can't help but think some folks would/could have been a bit creative/artistic, even if there aren't a lot of surviving examples.

 

[IanH]

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/gold-inlay-filling-kit-single-pack/

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I'll give it to you only once. Use kiblers tanic acid. Then use kiblers ferric nitrate. Scrub back to the desired color. Put finish on. You're then done, do nothing else. I believe there is a picture above using this method.

 

[Psycho Mike]

I'll give it to you only once. Use kiblers tanic acid. Then use kiblers ferric nitrate. Scrub back to the desired color. Put finish on. You're then done, do nothing else. I believe there is a picture above using this method.

C_N, I've been looking at the various flinters you've posted and they are all beautiful work....but I'd never buy one from you as they seem to be variations on exactly what you just posted: tannic acid, ferric nitrate, blush and finish. Yes, they show off the wood wonderfully and appear to be of excellent craftsmanship...but...other than variations for inletting, carving or otherwise, the ones I've been seeing are essentially all dark brown curl/figure/grain with a medium-dark to dark reddish brown overall color. Right now, that doesn't float my boat, flash my pan, etc. even if it's how most longs seem to be finished these days.

I'd love your constructive feedback to help me explore options to make my vision a reality....I'm looking for a lighter finish, trying to expose the curl some, but not go harsh tiger stripe. I want to play up the carving a little if I go that route, so I'm exploring options there....hence this thread. If what I am looking to do is too big a turn off for you or you haven't done anything like it, well, hey, I get it...feel free to bow out and snicker / laugh to yourself as I do my own thing.

Yes, I know doing something different can hurt future resale value if I later decide to sell...but as the Lyman taught me, sometimes folks want something different (and are willing to pay a premium for it because it is different than everything else)....but realistically, if I manage to put together what I want, it's not going anywhere except to the next generation when I go to the happy hunting ground in the sky.

 

[Marplot]

For an example, here is one that I did. AlI I did was stain the stock and sand a little. Nothing done to the carving.



View attachment 273475

View attachment 273477

EC121 this is EXACTLY what I want for my woodsrunner! I have the same incised carving on mine, extra fancy maple. What process did you use? I want to follow in your boot steps!

 

[EC121]

All I did was sand it down and use some iron nitrate. I sanded it some after blushing to lighten the color Then I stained it . I think the stain was Laurel Mountain honey maple. I like the LM reddish maple better but I was too lazy to re-do it. I used Laurel Mountain Sealer after that. Maybe 3 coats.

 

[Marplot]

All I did was sand it down and use some iron nitrate. I sanded it some after blushing to lighten the color Then I stained it . I think the stain was honey maple. I like the reddish maple better but I was too lazy to re-do it. I used Laurel Mountain Sealer after that. Maybe 3 coats.

This morning I will be finished sanding and I have some iron nitrate. Where do I get the honey maple stain? Maybe something a little darker.

 

[EC121]

www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com is one source. You can mix them for different colors. Kibler also sells the Laurel Mountain stains.

Find a piece of scrap wood and play with the colors.

I was wrong about the stain on the pictured rifle. It is the Transtint Honey Amber that Kibler sells on top of the iron nitrate. I used it diluted 6 to1 with alcohol on top of the iron nitrate. It is pricey but 2oz. makes a bunch diluted.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I get it...feel free to bow out and snicker / laugh to yourself as I do my own thing.

Oh thanks, that takes a huge weight off my shoulders.

I'd never buy one from you as they seem to be variations on exactly what you just posted: tannic acid, ferric nitrate, blush and finish.

Well that's good because I'm retired. You done missed the boat. As far as how I finish guns, I paid attention to what my market wanted and followed it. I wasn't fiddling around, I was making a living. Nearly 400 guns sold so something must have been right.

I'm looking for a lighter finish, trying to expose the curl some, but not go harsh tiger stripe. I want to play up the carving a little if I go that route, so I'm exploring options there....hence this thread.

Above you were looking at how to bring out "maximum curl". I'm lost now and don't care anymore. As far as the carving goes, I'm sure you'll end up making a mess out of that after reading your current ideas about what your plans are. Have fun with that, I'm done.
Another great example of new guys blowing off people who have 40+ years experience and 100 of guns under their belt. It happens over and over. I don't understand why. I wish back when I started some old timer would have taken me under his wing and showed me the ropes. We didn't have the internet for the first 20 years of my career.

 

[Psycho Mike]

Oh thanks, that takes a huge weight off my shoulders.

Well that's good because I'm retired. You done missed the boat. As far as how I finish guns, I paid attention to what my market wanted and followed it. I wasn't fiddling around, I was making a living. Nearly 400 guns sold so something must have been right.

Above you were looking at how to bring out "maximum curl". I'm lost now and don't care anymore. As far as the carving goes, I'm sure you'll end up making a mess out of that after reading your current ideas about what your plans are. Have fun with that, I'm done.
Another great example of new guys blowing off people who have 40+ years experience and 100 of guns under their belt. It happens over and over. I don't understand why. I wish back when I started some old timer would have taken me under his wing and showed me the ropes. We didn't have the internet for the first 20 years of my career.

A few things here....

First, apparently you cannot take a compliment or constructive criticism. Yes, your 40 years shows and you do beautiful work....but just like there are numerous makers of various products, not everyone wants the exact same thing. You have something that you do well and your clients wanted....great....doesn't mean it is the ONLY way to do it.

Second, if you didn't notice, I was asking for your help to get me what *I'm* after...I didn't say I wanted to maximize the curl, but that I did want to bring it up. There is a difference and I mistakenly thought you might have some ideas. Unfortunately, because it is not *your way* you got your panties in a knot and blew me off, essentially saying your way was the only way to do it. Being egotistical and disdainful might by why folks don't want to be taken under your wing.

Hey, here's a thought...Ford and GM have been making cars for a heck of a long time...even longer than you have been making guns....doesn't mean their products are perfect or what everyone wants. Tesla exists because GM and Ford weren't making what *everyone* wants.

So again, if you have some bright ideas to help bring up the curl on a *light* finished stock or to play up the carving on a Kibler while keeping the finish light, I'd love to hear it....otherwise, I leave you to your crotchety old man act.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

 

[Flintandsteel]

Just a thought, if you don’t want advice, don’t ask for it!

 

[IanH]

This morning I will be finished sanding and I have some iron nitrate. Where do I get the honey maple stain? Maybe something a little darker.

Do your iron nitrate exactly per Jim Kibler's video, one coat, blush it, and test the color with some high-proof isopropyl alcohol. If you like EC's color, don't use tannic acid as it will take the warm tones out of the light parts. If you want it more yellow/amber you can rub it back just a little and dye it. If you like what you have, rub it down with denim to break off any fuzz, blow or brush it clean (toothbrush the carving), and apply your finish.

If the Iron Nitrate is the right color for you but not dark enough, apply another coat and re-blush. If it is too dark, rub it back very lightly with grey Scotch Brite. Keep retesting with high-proof Isopropyl to check color.

Another thing you can do is dilute the iron nitrate solution with water or alcohol, it will yield a lighter color over-all. Here is a link to a rifle you might like, simply stained with diluted ferric nitrate and finished with linseed oil/beeswax product from Tried & True. I did a similar dilute ferric nitrate and T&T varnish oil to achieve the same tint and grain pop on an ash stock after much research and agonizing over it. When I found Mr. Elliott's page and rifle and his description of his finishing process I knew that was it and it turned out great.

https://www.markelliottva.com/2021/09/gun-19-augusta-rockbridge-virginia-rifle/

 

[54ball]

Glitter and Elmers
Case closed