India Torador Matchlock Wall Gun

[rickystl]

If you do go through with it and want to re use the rest of the barrel on a European build, it could be a good opportunity to make a very early musket.

LOL I was even thinking that about a 30" section of the barrel, at least style wise, might look good along side that big, plain wheellock that Flint has. LOL

Rick

 

[earlwb]

Hi Earl

I remember seeing your wall gun. Appears to be in a bit better condition than mine.

Rick

Well while mine looks good. To tell the truth, the barrel is pretty much useless. The bore is really totally shot. It is all very rough for its entire length. I think that when they hammered out the barrel on a mandrel they never finish bored it. Plus it may have been bent and then straightened out. When I ran a rod through the barrel there is a narrow spot about 2/3 down, you have to look really close to see it on the outside. Thus mine is decoration only for display type of gun.

Granted someone may be able to bore it out and install a steel liner in it though and then it could be a shooter. But I have not tried to find out if anyone could make a barrel for it or install a liner in it or not. I bought it like 30 or so years ago and it was at a really good price back then. I could not resist at the time.

I assume that when this batch of guns went out for sale they were scraping the warehouse out with whatever was left in the corner. No one may have noticed that the barrel was unfinished. They just threw it together from parts on hand.

Of course it could have been damaged in battle. They straightened out the bent barrel afterwards but because of the narrow spot on the inside and that it the bore was in such rough condition they just put it in the corner someplace.
Then a 100 years later someone puts a gun together with it.

 

[Sam squanch]

At the end of the day- it’s Rick’s gun, it is a common item , this is being done in the name of learning, so Rick should do what he wants with it. The bore may be so bad no one would work on it. At least get a wood turner to turn a copy of the barrel to fit in the stock for display, you save the stock and the rest and it won’t be so heavy to hang on the wall. Forgive me Rudyard….but know this, if it was mine I wouldn’t touch anything on it.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Rick: Mount it muzzle facing your front door. You can leave your door unlocked. If an uninvited guest arrives at 2a.m.; you will then discover a trail of diarrhea which can easily be followed by your local law enforcement leading to the ultimate arrest of the culprit. You can then frame the headlines of your local newspaper on the outside of your front door as a warning for any potential intruder. Keep it original!

 

[Moonshine Joe]

Gentlemen; and in particular, those who wish they never sold their jezzails:
I know of a friend with one for sale. He believes it to be a Mughal anti-elephant gun; my opinion is that it's an Afghan sniper matchlock. In any case, it has a large, rifled bore, crude peep sights, and straight stock (not the elegant curved style). I know the bore is clear because I cleaned it for him.
If there is interest, I'll get pictures, measurements and a price range. The piece is located in north Idaho.
Moonshine

 

[rickystl]

Hi Earl

That "narrow spot" that you discovered about 2/3rds (or maybe a bit more) is likely what we call the narrow section where the ball/shot rest on. This provides the air gap between the ball and the powder in the larger (than bore size) chamber at the breech end. This bore design was intentionally made this way. I don't know how they were able to clean the barrels of fowling with this bore design. As fellow Forum member Pukka once mentioned: I've never seen the bore of a Torador barrel that was even half-way decent. And neither have I. LOL I've often wondered if they continued to load and fire until the fowling would not allow any more loading. Then the barrels were either discarded, or returned to an arsenal for refurbishing (?)

I'll report back on the bore of mine this week.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

This should give you an idea of the breech design....

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Rick you are correct about a very hard to clean bore at the breach...I guess filling the bbl. with aqua....then forcing an over sized wad of something to pressure residue out the touch-hole, repeating until black turns to grey turns to near clear. Then the problem is how to dry the water out so rust buildup in that breach chamber does not occur ?

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Tow would clean it just fine …

Another experiential archeology ‘guess’of mine is that a rod to fit the smaller bore could be heated hot/warm and then dropped down into the breech to help dry it out.

Why not???

 

[Sam squanch]

We have ……WD -40! That and compressed air work for me.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Sam...great idea...compressed air and WD-40...oh, wait...WD-40 in a can already is under pressure...use that little red tube in the can plunger and stick the other end in the touch-hole ! Don't you wish there was a way to telegraph that idea to the India fortresses back in the day...they could run down to their local Costco and get a dozen cans cheap..enough to last a couple of wars! Then knowing WD-40 is highly flammable...prime the pan with powder, ignite and via the touch-hole, the liquid WD-40 would go Ker-Pow and the breach would be hot and dry.....just another of Flints experimental archeology !

 

[Rudyard]

Sam...great idea...compressed air and WD-40...oh, wait...WD-40 in a can already is under pressure...use that little red tube in the can plunger and stick the other end in the touch-hole ! Don't you wish there was a way to telegraph that idea to the India fortresses back in the day...they could run down to their local Costco and get a dozen cans cheap..enough to last a couple of wars! Then knowing WD-40 is highly flammable...prime the pan with powder, ignite and via the touch-hole, the liquid WD-40 would go Ker-Pow and the breach would be hot and dry.....just another of Flints experimental archeology !

Not sure about the WD 40 you can clean the bore & its anti chamber takes a bit more ingenuity a wire brush grabs rag well .It not like you use such a gun regularly surely its worth the effort ?. think of the huge efforts to make such a barrel .They might be relativly common .There where an estimated 3 plus million India pattern Brown Besses they and parts are not that rare but it would be wrong to mess one up ,Thats what some shed Bubba did to my ist pat Baker rifle but I was its savior and restored it to a fit state .Ime sure you arn't a shed Bubba .I had just a well worn sling hook but its now preserved in a Catalan border guard style Escopeta mated to an old Patilla Miguelet lock & an old 16 bore brl.. We should be about preservation not against it .
My thoughts Rudyard

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,
If that narrow section mentioned above was two thirds way down the bore, that wouldn't be the powder chamber. I know the powder chamber hold s a fair bit, but a third of the barrel is a bit much!
I once missed a two groove torador at auction, bore size about an inch. a fair walloper if ever there was one.

 

[rickystl]

Rick,
If that narrow section mentioned above was two thirds way down the bore, that wouldn't be the powder chamber. I know the powder chamber hold s a fair bit, but a third of the barrel is a bit much!
I once missed a two groove torador at auction, bore size about an inch. a fair walloper if ever there was one.

Much agree. 2/3rds down the barrel is a bit much for the rod to stop. Could the barrel possibly still have a load in it ?

I'm checking the bore of mine first to make sure there is not a load still in it.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

Just stick it out the back door and bang away…. Just in- man in St Charles arrested for firing antiquated assault rifle in peaceful neighborhood……..

 

[rickystl]

Just finished examining the barrel. I used a tiny drop light I have that has a white light and is the diameter of a thin pencil. The light has a hole in one end which I attached some stiff wire. The bore is heavily corroded. If one wanted to use the barrel for shooting, it would HAVE to go to Bobby Hoyt for re-boring and likely a steel liner. IMHO. (It's tempting LOL) Fortunately for me, I won't be going this route.
So the barrel is 65" long. Running the bore light down the barrel, it stopped at about 59". Just at the beginning of the swell. Which would be just about right where the narrow section begins. The barrel is so long, I can't actually see it, but I'm sure I touched it. An iron rod makes the correct "clang" when bouncing it off the narrow section. Also, a piece of thin wire and a pipe cleaner through the vent hole produced no evidence of powder. Just rust/dirt. So, I'm confident the barrel is not loaded, and the breech design is what I was looking for. I plan on cutting the barrel in two about 6" in front of the beginning of the narrow section. That way it will show the transition to the nominal cylinder bore from the rear of the breech. The breech wall is extremely thick. Once the barrel is cut in two, I'll take some more picks. Maybe another surprise. LOL

I have now confirmed I have the right barrel for the project. So I'll check with Flint62 and ask if he's still a go. And I'll pull the barrel off the stock and get to work with the hacksaw. (Unless I find someone with a bandsaw for metal) LOL

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Just stick it out the back door and bang away…. Just in- man in St Charles arrested for firing antiquated assault rifle in peaceful neighborhood……..

As bad as that would be in St. Charles, imagine the same in Chesterfield where I live. LOL

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

We can’t drive past chesterfield without stopping at the Cheesecake Factory…..

 

[TobJohn]

Just finished examining the barrel. I used a tiny drop light I have that has a white light and is the diameter of a thin pencil. The light has a hole in one end which I attached some stiff wire. The bore is heavily corroded. If one wanted to use the barrel for shooting, it would HAVE to go to Bobby Hoyt for re-boring and likely a steel liner. IMHO. (It's tempting LOL) Fortunately for me, I won't be going this route.
So the barrel is 65" long. Running the bore light down the barrel, it stopped at about 59". Just at the beginning of the swell. Which would be just about right where the narrow section begins. The barrel is so long, I can't actually see it, but I'm sure I touched it. An iron rod makes the correct "clang" when bouncing it off the narrow section. Also, a piece of thin wire and a pipe cleaner through the vent hole produced no evidence of powder. Just rust/dirt. So, I'm confident the barrel is not loaded, and the breech design is what I was looking for. I plan on cutting the barrel in two about 6" in front of the beginning of the narrow section. That way it will show the transition to the nominal cylinder bore from the rear of the breech. The breech wall is extremely thick. Once the barrel is cut in two, I'll take some more picks. Maybe another surprise. LOL

I have now confirmed I have the right barrel for the project. So I'll check with Flint62 and ask if he's still a go. And I'll pull the barrel off the stock and get to work with the hacksaw. (Unless I find someone with a bandsaw for metal) LOL

Rick

If you film the barrel getting hacksawed, would it be the first matchlock snuff film?

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Hacksaw? Wire EDM bro, we want it EXACT cut-away!