Indian Wheellock

[tarawa1943]

A friend’s family manufactured arms and armor for re-enactors and the movie industry for many years. A while back he designed and made an affordable wheellock for the American market. I told him I was always interested in wheellocks and asked if he happened to squirrel one away. He said he kept one and I am going to get it from him. Knowing the quality (or lack of) of Indian black powder guns, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with one. I have been searching youtube for info and there isn’t much. Any info other than steer clear is welcome. I am a glutton for punishment and I may try to duplicate the lock in my shop. Pics later.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I am a glutton for punishment and I may try to duplicate the lock in my shop.

Go for it!

In regards to whellocks made in or sold through India, as you may read here, we're not quite sure who may have really made them. This post compares a Spanish-made W-L to one bought on a pistol from India that has what appears to be an identically manufactured lock.

If you'd like - if any questions on the lock your friend's family made - I'd check it out for you, for free. I've checked or tuned 3 for members on these Forums now, and you can PM Rickkstl and I'm sure he'd vouch for my character and integrity. Also check your PM, I sent you an article you might find interesting.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...rison-spanish-mendi-vs-indian-x-model.176053/

 

[tarawa1943]

Go for it!

In regards to whellocks made in or sold through India, as you may read here, we're not quite sure who may have really made them. This post compares a Spanish-made W-L to one bought on a pistol from India that has what appears to be an identically manufactured lock.

If you'd like - if any questions on the lock your friend's family made - I'd check it out for you, for free. I've checked or tuned 3 for members on these Forums now, and you can PM Rickkstl and I'm sure he'd vouch for my character and integrity. Also check your PM, I sent you an article you might find interesting.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...rison-spanish-mendi-vs-indian-x-model.176053/

Thank you for the generous offer. I have read the post on Spanish vs. Indian wheellocks. Very interesting. My friend’s family business supplied weapons and accouterments for movies like Pirates of the Caribbean. It is a 4th generation Indian business. He actually borrowed a wheellock from a person in the US and reversed engineered it. His goal was to make an “affordable” working wheellock.

 

[tarawa1943]

Here are the pictures

 

[BillinOregon]

"Affordable" and wheellock are two words seldom seen together. Very interesting handgun.

 

[TobJohn]

That’s a good replica of an Italian wheellock!

 

[Sam squanch]

Looks like the ones Schroter or Shroder arms offered in the 1990’s.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

That’s a good replica of an Italian wheellock!

Not quite ... maybe for the 'overall look', but the lock is extremely underpowered.

Looks like the ones Schroter or Shroder arms offered in the 1990’s.

@Sam squanch is correct and this now becomes very interesting what with the back story added here in Post #1. Maybe the Mendi locks were built either in Spain or India (see the 'Mendi' post below), but that piece as shown above in Post #4 is indeed one of the 2 styles of wheellocks marketed by J. Schroeter of Costa Mesda, CA back in the 1990s.

To me they look anything unlike any of the locks I've ever seen come out of India. I wonder if we'll ever know ...

Link to the Mendi lock comparison:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...rison-spanish-mendi-vs-indian-x-model.176053/

 

[tarawa1943]

Educate me on how to tell a lock is underpowered by looking at the front. Maybe not large enough to contain heavy springs? It is supposed to be delivered here tomorrow so I will take better pics.

 

[tarawa1943]

I am pretty excited about getting this. In the past I only thought he dealt in daggers, swords and damascus. He says he doesn’t have any muskets available but may have some flintlock pistols left. He is pretty much retired. I may see if he wants to liquidate his remaining firearm line.

 

[Sam squanch]

I was RIGHT!! Someone tell my spouse….

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Educate me on how to tell a lock is underpowered by looking at the front. Maybe not large enough to contain heavy springs?

Ouch ... but you're right. However that is my presumption from handling and working on 3 of them just to be able to get 2 of them to spark somewhat reliably, ableit a tiny spark as it was ... still, there was a spark.

There's a host of issues with Schroeter wheelllocks, poor/weak springs, lucky to get 1/2 a turn when wound (makes that even worse with spring issues), cam machined wrong, parts fit, etc. ...

 

[tarawa1943]

Ouch ... but you're right. However that is my presumption from handling and working on 3 of them just to be able to get 2 of them to spark somewhat reliably, ableit a tiny spark as it was ... still, there was a spark.

There's a host of issues with Schroeter wheelllocks, poor/weak springs, lucky to get 1/2 a turn when wound (makes that even worse with spring issues), cam machined wrong, parts fit, etc. ...

In the past I have sent a rare German dagger to be duplicated by the Indians. Although the final product came out perfect, it took several years to get to that point. I had to send back the prototype parts several times to get it corrected. The Indian craftsmen can do wonderful work, but you have to keep on them. Look at their damascus blade work. It is great.
Have you tried to remake or re-temper the springs?

 

[Sam squanch]

I had one. It kind of worked. Depending what planet was in which house….

 

[rickystl]

I had one. It kind of worked. Depending what planet was in which house….

I remember the Schroeter adds in various gun magazines. They seemed to have disappeared after 2-3 years. I've only seen a couple turn up at auctions over the many years.

Rick

 

[tarawa1943]

The wheellock came today. The wood to metal fit and finish is very nice. Metal work looks typical for Indian workmanship. All in all not bad for a gun a little shy of $500. Not knowing anything about the mechanics, I can tell that a stronger spring would probably be better. I will remove the lock to study the mechanism next. Unfortunately he didn’t have anymore. I will be able to compare to my friend’s real Germanic wheellock kn Monday. I didn’t even know he had one. Here it is.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Sounds great! Please let me know how I can be of any help ... just PM me.

 

[tarawa1943]

Sounds great! Please let me know how I can be of any help ... just PM me.

I am going to try my hand at spring making. Years ago I bought an assortment of flat spring material from Brownells. I am finally going to use some of it

 

[tarawa1943]

I got a dremel diamond blade today and In cut some pyrite. Man is it dusty. I cut some rectangular pieces and I can get some sparking. Not enough for my liking.