Inexpensive flintlocks...

[goon]

What can you guys tell me about the more inexpensive flintlocks like Traditions or CVA?
The only flintlock I've owned was a Lyman. I would buy another - that rifle ignited instantaneously when I pressed the trigger. Sharp flint & pinch of powder was as reliable any cartridge gun I've owned.

However, my dad is looking for a flintlock to get into muzzloader hunting. I'm thinking I might do some shopping around and try to get him one for his birthday, but I don't think I can swing a Lyman or T/C. What's the experience on the more low budget flintlocks?
He's not likely to shoot one like I would - meaning he'll probably be lucky to shoot more than a hundred or so shots out of it the whole time he owns it. He just really likes to hunt and I want to do something for him to thank him for being such a great father.

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Dont ask Me, I will give you a rant on the evils of production flintlocks.

Im so much happier since my EX got mine in the devorce

 

I have never owned a Traditions flintlock, but my first muzzleloader was a traditions caplock. It was quite serviceable, and fairly accurate. Not as accurate as my $1,100 TVM flintlock, but adequate for hunting up to 100 yds.
You might keep an eye on the classified ads in this forum and check GunBroker. Now and then, you can find a pretty decent price on a used flintlock.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

Guys here on the flintlock side razz any production flintlock.
They don’t seem to realize that even the most expensive custom rifle has to be tweaked.
In the cheap factory guns, the “tweaker” has to be you! When I first started on this forum I was told my TC Hawken would never shoot but that was wrong. It shoots fine. And you can make a Traditions or CVA shoot also. Get what you can afford and got for it. It is a great fun sport.

 

Guys here on the flintlock side razz any production flintlock.

THis is not accurate. You are generalizing about a great many members.

When I first started on this forum I was told my TC Hawken would never shoot but that was wrong.

Again, you are generalizing about a great many members. You give a false impression of the people here.

 

[goon]

Thanks. For my own uses I'd love to have a flintlock fowler in either .58 or .62 caliber and built historically accurate to c. 1700 - but that's because I'm into history.

My dad would no doubt appreciate something that custom, but he'd still only use it for a bit of hunting, shoot a few practice shots once a year (a box of centerfire rifle ammo easily lasts him 10 years), proudly show it to his friends, and otherwise leave it oiled in a corner. So most anything that will work reliably and shoot accurately to 75 yards or so (my dad's vision isn't so good anyhow) will serve him well. He's more of a hunter than a history nut (whereas I am the opposite).

FWIW, a flintlock makes the most sense because he's in PA and percussion rifles can only be used in the early season. Otherwise I'd definitely go the percussion route.

 

[peter hawbaker]

Hmmm.......I appreciate your dilemma, about 10 years ago I bought my dad his first flinter to get him into PAs late muzzleloader season. I always recommend a TC or Lyman as the lowest price reliable flinter, I have seen lots of different flintlocks in use in PAs late season, sometimes would participate in drives with large groups of hunters with a lot of them using the cheaper flintlocks. I would still recomend a used TC or Lyman, but if you have to go with Traditions, look for a "PA Pellet" model, they have larger, more reliable locks than the standard Traditions. I have seen a good number of deer killed with the smaller traditions flintlocks though, so they can work.

 

[J.D.]

The problems with the cheap flintguns is poorly designed, cheap locks that need quite a lot of "tweeking" top just make em work reliably.

IMHO, a new flint shooter using a piece with a poorly designed lock will not be happy with the lack of reliability. IMHO, people trying to use pieces with cheap locks is the reason so many think flintguns have such slow, unreliable ignition.

IMHO, a good used TC or Lyman shouldn't cost any more than a new piece with a cheap lock. I suggest searching the online auctions, Track, and for used pieces on this site.

God bless

 

[Trench]

My first flintlock rifle was a Traditions Hawken, and the lock was indeed manure. It was put mounting holes for the mainspring weren't drilled in the right places and it would slip off the tumbler. The gap between the frizzen and the pan were so large, the primer would all fall out while walking. I replaced the lock with an L&R locm and it is now serviceable. Besides the lock, it shoots as good as I would expect it too. No qualms about the barrel.
You might be able to find Lyman's trade rifle in the price range you're looking.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Guys here on the flintlock side razz any production flintlock.
They don’t seem to realize that even the most expensive custom rifle has to be tweaked.
In the cheap factory guns, the “tweaker” has to be you!

That's kind of like saying "any car can be made to accelerate like a Maserati". True, but it will likely require tossing out some original parts and dropping in better ones. A custom rifle usually starts with well made components.

When I first started on this forum I was told my TC Hawken would never shoot but that was wrong. It shoots fine. And you can make a Traditions or CVA shoot also. Get what you can afford and got for it. It is a great fun sport.

A T/C is a very well made firearm. They should work very well, usually and do. They are not "cheap flintlocks" but more properly "entry level flintlocks" that some folks never outgrow.

 

[Tom Compton]

Lock, stock and barrel.

With a poor or out of tune lock (ill hardened, ill fitting, etc), it may be slow or otherwise unreliable.

If the stock doesn't fit, it will be shootable but hamper good position and therefore hunting.

If the barrel has problems(run out, inconsistant bore, sharp rifling, bad breech plug fit, bad crown, etc) the accuracy will suffer to the point use, practice and enjoyment go down.

On car forums we say cheap tools are too expensive.

Buy a used quality piece and refinish it for him!

Just my outlook. Your glasses may be different.

TC

 

[roundball]

FWIW, a flintlock makes the most sense because he's in PA and percussion rifles can only be used in the early season.
Otherwise I'd definitely go the percussion route.

You might want to double check that...I understood that effective this year of 2010, the "Flintlock Only" requirement goes away...you might want to check with the PA Wildlife Dept...in which case you could go the caplock route

 

[goon]

Thanks for all the input. I suppose it does make at least as much sense to get a used quality rifle over a new cheap one.
I do know that a good flintlock will work properly, given my experience with the one I had from Lyman and how it literally did go off every time.
And thanks for the input on checking the regs - I haven't hunted for a few years (but I might get back into it - a girl I'm into enoys it ). So I'll check them. If the flintlock requirement is going away I think I'll try to steer my dad toward a decent caplock. He is very knowledgeable on guns but percussion ignition should up the odds just a bit.

 

[nchawkeye]

Get him to buy the Lyman, then he can pass it down to his grandkids...

 

[D. Bowman]

You might want to double check that...I understood that effective this year of 2010, the "Flintlock Only" requirement goes away...you might want to check with the PA Wildlife Dept...in which case you could go the caplock route

Don't know where your gettin your info but I have heard nothing about any changes in the flint only late season.

It would be a shame to ruin the only truly traditional ML season left.

 

[peter hawbaker]

That rumor was going around for a while (PA changing their Flint Only season), but I believe it has been discounted. I certainly hope so, that would be a terrible turn of events. If they change that, I would probably stop buying a PA license altogether.

 

[MikeChapin]

What can you guys tell me about the more inexpensive flintlocks like Traditions or CVA?
...

It's pretty much a manure shoot. Sometimes you will find a good lock and other times the lock is horrible. I have an old CVA Kentucky flint pistol that works quite well. I didn't have to tune it or anything and it goes off every time. It is one of the real cheapies with no bridle and fly.

Others I have seen will barely go off and when they do spark only a little goes in the pan.

I am putting together a pre-1975 CVA Kentucky flinter for a friend of mine. It has the cheap lock. While I was adjusting the tumbler engagement I tripped the lock each time. It seems to be sparking well and putting the sparks in the pan. I will find out next weekend when I get the rifle together.

The one bright light is that if you get a bad lock you can pick up a drop in replacement from L&R.

 

[rafterob]

I had a CVA Kentucky flinter back in '78 and all I can say is it went boom every time. I polished all the internal lock surfaces well, honed the sear and kept a good flint in it. A friend has an early '90s Traditions Pennsylvania Flinter and it goes boom every time ( he did have the lock tuned up by our local expert). I think the problems that arise are mainly durability over time and inconsistancy in assembly.

 

[Zoar]

goon---Here is an idea: buy a Lyman GPR.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031106
$486!

If you want it to look a bit more authentic put a nice stain on the stock.

You probably can't get any cheaper than $486!

From what you said your dad will only shoot a few round balls out of it, use it to hunt occasionally but mostly just have it oiled up in the corner to show his buddies.

I really cannot imagine you getting a better gun for $486 and forget about CAP LOCK, they are no where near as cool, or interesting, or pretty in a corner all oiled up to show your friends, Flintlocks Rule.

 

[Ron Stone]

my first flintlock was a traditions hawken woodsman it was a beautiful rifle and when i could get it to go off it was accurate but the problem was it would only go off about 1 in 5 strikes of the frizzen. L&R said they were coming out with a replacement lock for this rifle in about 6 mos. that was about 10 yrs ago and to my knowledge they dont have an rpl lock for this model. I finally traded it off ror a patriot pistol. If you could locate a cheap used cva or traditions that L&R makes an rpl lock for that may be a cheaper way to go their barrels are generaly good but if u buy used get one of those drop in bore lites and make sure the bore is good around here in the pawn shops they go for a hundred bucks or less when you can find them. most pawn shops wont take them anymore they have pretty much gone to inlines only