Info please with cocking effort on Hawken percussion lock

[Larry (Omaha)]

I have a nice Hawken style percussion lock that works well, except it is punching the cap lids into the nipple flash hole. What is going on? Well, when I started looking at it, I realized the cocking effort is waaaaay too stout. I will trim the mainspring to lower the cocking effort. My question to the forum: What is a good poundage to shoot for? I can't give you a lock brand as I do not know. It is a leaf spring, not a coil spring.
Thanks in advance
Larry

 

[Are. M.]

When you say trim the spring, where is the metal coming off of? The hook end, the side of the spring, or the flat of the spring?

 

[Davey Boy]

Before you wreck the spring, why not look at the flat inside the hammer and look at the nipple surface to see if it is also flat and the two surfaces are in complete contact?

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

When you say trim the spring, where is the metal coming off of? The hook end, the side of the spring, or the flat of the spring?

I am no expert, but in my years of working with locks I have done both. Thinned the thickness and also removed material from the width. Depending on what I have and the intended end result, I may do both the aforementioned or just one. Two issues I consider are: never leave cuts, scratches, or grooves at right angles of the spring length. If grinding never get the spring too hot to hold. Again, not an expert, this is what I do.
Larry
PS I work on the hook end of the spring, but don't touch the hook

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Before you wreck the spring, why not look at the flat inside the hammer and look at the nipple surface to see if it is also flat and the two surfaces are in complete contact?

Not bragging, but I made the rifle. The lock, barrel and drum were all tuned/timed when it was made. The punched out wafer of cap lid is a solid round that fills the nipple flash hole. The spring tension strenght is way too stout. Even if the lock wasn't punching holes in cap lids, the spring needs to be trimmed.
Thanks for a good point
Larry

 

[ZUG]

Not bragging, but I made the rifle. The lock, barrel and drum were all tuned/timed when it was made. The punched out wafer of cap lid is a solid round that fills the nipple flash hole. The spring tension strenght is way too stout. Even if the lock wasn't punching holes in cap lids, the spring needs to be trimmed.
Thanks for a good point
Larry

You just might need a shorter nipple ----

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

You just might need a shorter nipple ----

Ok, how does that help the horendous effort to draw the hammer back? Seriously I don't understand how that would reduce the spring tension.
thanks
Larry

 

[deerstalkert]

first off i would recommend acquiring a replacement spring before working on the current one. nothing ruins my day like having a two piece main spring and nothing to replace it with for a month or so while some shipping entity attempts to lose or destroy it .
as to the work you are contemplating, i think you are on the right path, and i think you have the ability. go for it!
but, when you have the spring off work the hammer to see if there is galling or some fumunda causing the extra effort. check the bridle for wear around the axel. that can cause a bind.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Maybe I didn’t understand the question but I measured the amount of pull it takes to cock a couple rifles. Both started at about 11 pounds to half cock then one increased to 15 pounds. The other (a Siler kit) went down to 7 pounds to full cock. Both percussion of coarse.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

first off i would recommend acquiring a replacement spring before working on the current one. nothing ruins my day like having a two piece main spring and nothing to replace it with for a month or so while some shipping entity attempts to lose or destroy it .
as to the work you are contemplating, i think you are on the right path, and i think you have the ability. go for it!
but, when you have the spring off work the hammer to see if there is galling or some fumunda causing the extra effort. check the bridle for wear around the axel. that can cause a bind.

Thanks, all good points to ponder. If the bridle has wear or is binding, why is there so much downward energy to punch holes in the Remmingon #11 caps on a Hot Shot nipple?
I shoot flint 95% of the time. If this spring gets ruined no big deal for a shipping wait, cuz it would most likely be hanging on the wall anyway.
Larry

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Maybe I didn’t understand the question but I measured the amount of pull it takes to cock a couple rifles. Both started at about 11 pounds to half cock then one increased to 15 pounds. The other (a Siler kit) went down to 7 pounds to full cock. Both percussion of coarse.

You did and thanks.
Larry

 

[deerstalkert]

like you Larry I shoot flintlock 99% of the time and only build flintlocks. but having gone through several dozen TC's cap guns and a like amount of Investarms of many flavors, I have some knowledge of them, unless i have forgotten that info. doing alot of that these days.
I would suggest trying some other caps to see if it is something inherent to the Rem caps.
if the bridle/axel is worn oblong the forces may be greater going back or ahead.
let us know please how you cure this. good hands on knowledge is worth having. if I could remember it!

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

like you Larry I shoot flintlock 99% of the time and only build flintlocks. but having gone through several dozen TC's cap guns and a like amount of Investarms of many flavors, I have some knowledge of them, unless i have forgotten that info. doing alot of that these days.
I would suggest trying some other caps to see if it is something inherent to the Rem caps.
if the bridle/axel is worn oblong the forces may be greater going back or ahead.
let us know please how you cure this. good hands on knowledge is worth having. if I could remember it!

Right you are on the caps. The gun was made in the 80s. Can't be more than 300 to 400 rounds through it, so worn parts are non issue. When I shot it in the 80s, I used CCI caps.
Larry