Inherited old muzzleloader

[steveh1155]

Hi, I just inherited an old percussion cap muzzle loading rifle from my father, who inherited it from his father, who inherited it from his father (my great great grandfather), but the gun appears to be much older than that. There is no maker stamped anywhere on the rifle that I could find, just the name Jos h Golcher on the lock plate, from what I understand is just the lock maker. The rifle also came with 2 powder horns, one containing caked black powder and the other containing round lead shot that looks too small for the barrel. Also came with a small tin, with a label marked Hicks, containing percussion caps. The tiger striping on the stock looks like it was faux painted on. Could anyone here tell me a little more information about this rifle. Would like to know age and value (for insurance) and where it was likely made. My father and at least 4 generations before him lived in Evansville, Indiana.

My first thought was to take it to a gunsmith to make sure there's not a round in the bottom of the barrel and to see if it could possibly be made to fire, but after thinking about that, I don't think anything should be done to it, especially not cleaning it. It's in fairly good shape just the way it is - with a nice patina, the only faults I can see are, looks like the ramrod has been replaced at some point with a metal rod and one of the ramrod tubes that was attached to the barrel is missing. Thanks for any help or information!

Steve

 

[Phil Coffins]

Nice midwest rifle, you should still check to see if it’s loaded. It common to find these old guns with a load in them.

 

[SDSmlf]

My first thought was to take it to a gunsmith to make sure there's not a round in the bottom of the barrel

Nice gun. You can use the ramrod to check if there is a round in the barrel, or at least eliminate if there is something in the bore. Simply run the ramrod down the bore and take note of how much of it sticks out if the muzzle. Then lay the ramrod along side the barrel and determine how close the end of the ramrod is to the drum that holds the nipple. If there is nothing in the bore, it should be fairly close to the vertical line I added to your photograph when the other end is in the same position as when you ran it down the bore, depending on the type of breech your gun has.

 

[Brianc]

See these old ones with an old load frequently

 

[Grenadier1758]

@steveh1155, have you verified if your gun is rifled or smoothbored? It does have a rear sight and there are slight indications of grooves at the muzzle. You may have a small caliber smoothbore. I see very little evidence of rifling or the muzzle may be coned. The shot horn may have been for a shot gun that has been lost to the family.

What is the caliber?

I agree, the stripes have been artificially applied.

Use the attached ram rod or a hardware store dowel rod to check for a load.

 

[steveh1155]

Nice gun. You can use the ramrod to check if there is a round in the barrel, or at least eliminate if there is something in the bore. Simply run the ramrod down the bore and take note of how much of it sticks out if the muzzle. Then lay the ramrod along side the barrel and determine how close the end of the ramrod is to the drum that holds the nipple. If there is nothing in the bore, it should be fairly close to the vertical line I added to your photograph when the other end is in the same position as when you ran it down the bore, depending on the type of breech your gun has.
View attachment 81020

I removed the ramrod and measured as you suggested and the end of the ramrod ended up exactly where your red line is. So I can safely assume it's empty.
Thanks for that info!

 

[PathfinderNC]

Thats a wonderful family heirloom. I am happy for you! Also I think it's wise to just maintain it in it's current condition as long as there is no active rusting. Hope you will get more information here about a maker or it's history.

 

[steveh1155]

@steveh1155, have you verified if your gun is rifled or smoothbored? It does have a rear sight and there are slight indications of grooves at the muzzle. You may have a small caliber smoothbore. I see very little evidence of rifling or the muzzle may be coned. The shot horn may have been for a shot gun that has been lost to the family.

What is the caliber?

I agree, the stripes have been artificially applied.

Use the attached ram rod or a hardware store dowel rod to check for a load.

When I shine a strong light down the bore I'm not seeing traditional lands and grooves. What I can see is a bore with 7 flat sides (heptagonal shaped?) With my limited knowledge of this subject, I'm guessing this is some type of rifling?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Are the heptagonal sides straight or spiraled?

 

[steveh1155]

Are the heptagonal sides straight or spiraled?

I just can't tell, I can only see about an inch down the bore. I suppose I could run a bore brush down it and see if I can notice any kind of twist that way.

 

[jcs266]

What an interesting thread. I'm following this to learn more of this old classic. Congrats on the inheritance and its family history.

 

[SDSmlf]

I just can't tell, I can only see about an inch down the bore. I suppose I could run a bore brush down it and see if I can notice any kind of twist that way.

Careful with a bore brush. They have a tendency to get stuck in muzzleloaders. Do you happen to have a borelight (think fishing bobber light), or a borescope? If not, perhaps you could borrow one from somebody you know. Might also help to clean the bore a bit with a patch on a slotted cleaning jag (for now you don’t want to lose a patch in the bore). Once cleaned up some, may be easier to see any rifling in the bore.

 

[Dude]

Is that Metford rifling?

Welcome to the forum! And what a great first post!

 

[steveh1155]

Careful with a bore brush. They have a tendency to get stuck in muzzleloaders. Do you happen to have a borelight (think fishing bobber light), or a borescope? If not, perhaps you could borrow one from somebody you know. Might also help to clean the bore a bit with a patch on a slotted cleaning jag (for now you don’t want to lose a patch in the bore). Once cleaned up some, may be easier to see any rifling in the bore.

Yeah, your right about a bore brush, there's no reverse! I don't have a borelight and don't really know where I could borrow one, but I have seen the inexpensive bore cameras that connect to a phone on Amazon that I think may work. I have a slotted cleaning jag tip in my kit so I may try to gently clean the top of the bore a little more and see if it helps to see down better. I measured the bore diameter and as close as I can tell it's about .36 caliber.

 

[sportster73hp]

I have a percussion barrel with similar rifling. My father got it at a garage sale many years ago. I have spent a lot of time trying to clean it. It’s about 40 cal but pitted. May build something around it in the future anyway

 

[user 48679]

When I shine a strong light down the bore I'm not seeing traditional lands and grooves. What I can see is a bore with 7 flat sides (heptagonal shaped?) With my limited knowledge of this subject, I'm guessing this is some type of rifling?View attachment 81047

That hexagon rifling looks like the old Whitworth rifling, which used a likewise hexagonical cast boolit.

An illustration of old rifling types is on pp.26/27 of Ned Robert's book - The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle

Please check for a seated load with the ramrod, as noted above.

Your rifle was most likely made by a small (one man) gunshop, many of which purchased Golcher locks for their build.

Sometimes the maker would leave their mark on a hidden portion of the barrel or on the inside surface of the lock plate.

 

[Crane Senior]

Hi, I just inherited an old percussion cap muzzle loading rifle from my father, who inherited it from his father, who inherited it from his father (my great great grandfather), but the gun appears to be much older than that. There is no maker stamped anywhere on the rifle that I could find, just the name Jos h Golcher on the lock plate, from what I understand is just the lock maker. The rifle also came with 2 powder horns, one containing caked black powder and the other containing round lead shot that looks too small for the barrel. Also came with a small tin, with a label marked Hicks, containing percussion caps. The tiger striping on the stock looks like it was faux painted on. Could anyone here tell me a little more information about this rifle. Would like to know age and value (for insurance) and where it was likely made. My father and at least 4 generations before him lived in Evansville, Indiana.

My first thought was to take it to a gunsmith to make sure there's not a round in the bottom of the barrel and to see if it could possibly be made to fire, but after thinking about that, I don't think anything should be done to it, especially not cleaning it. It's in fairly good shape just the way it is - with a nice patina, the only faults I can see are, looks like the ramrod has been replaced at some point with a metal rod and one of the ramrod tubes that was attached to the barrel is missing. Thanks for any help or information!View attachment 81015View attachment 81016View attachment 81017View attachment 81018View attachment 81019

Steve

What a great heirloom, you’re very lucky to have this rifle. Also, great thread, I’m looking forward to this journey.

 

[Rudyard]

Is that Metford rifling?

Welcome to the forum! And what a great first post!

No . It more close to Whitworth but unlikely to be such , its good you chose to preserve it as it is .
Rudyard

 

[deerstalkert]

only 7 groove i found was a Baker Rifle from 1800. page 625. WW Greener The gun and its development

 

[hanshi]

Agreed, nice heirloom. Clean it up to stop any active rusting but don't "refurbish" it.