Installing barrel staples question

[wszumera]

Uncle and I were looking at the totw catalog at the instructions for installing barrel staples and it seemed a bit confusing to us.

They want us to stake one side of staple before the other but the wording on where the other side of staple is resting is ambiguous.

They speak about not worrying about deforming staple since that can be corrected. Can we assume you put both ends of staple in the holes but only tap on the one side to drive it to bottom of hole before peening edges?

I can't imagine that them mean to have only one end of the staple in the hole when peening the first side but the instructions sorta imply that.

We need a klew or two.

Thanks,
Clutch

 

Stick both legs into the holes until they bottom out and peen them in one at a time. I work back and forth on them to make sure they stay bottomed out in the holes as you peen them.

 

[Zonie]

Clutch: If your curious, I've used these on a number of guns without a problem but lately, I've taken to silver soldering them after peening them in place, "just to make sure".

The only problem I've had using these is I managed to set my drill stop incorrectly which resulted in drilling a hole thru the wall of my $220 barrel. The moral of the story is be extra careful when drilling the holes.

What did I do with the barrel? I was fortunate that this happened on the front underlug so I cut off 5 1/2 inches of the barrel, recrowned it and used it to build this short little .54 cal Flintlock:

 

[Herb]

Zonie, I put my barrel in the drill vise table level and square, at the end of the quill throw. So when I pull down on the lever until it hits the stop, the drill just touches the barrel. I then raise the quill, take the barrel out, and shim under it with the thickness I want to drill the hole depth, perhaps .080 to .100. Replace the barrel, place the center punch hole under the drill bit, tighten the vise, and pull down to drill until I hit the stop. I stake my staples in and also silver solder them.

 

[davy]

Zonie, I put my barrel in the drill vise table level and square, at the end of the quill throw. So when I pull down on the lever until it hits the stop, the drill just touches the barrel. I then raise the quill, take the barrel out, and shim under it with the thickness I want to drill the hole depth, perhaps .080 to .100. Replace the barrel, place the center punch hole under the drill bit, tighten the vise, and pull down to drill until I hit the stop. I stake my staples in and also silver solder them.

Sounds like high "stakes" poker ta me! :rotf:

Davy

 

[MikeChapin]

...
The only problem I've had using these is I managed to set my drill stop incorrectly which resulted in drilling a hole thru the wall of my $220 barrel. The moral of the story is be extra careful when drilling the holes.
...

I always worried about doing that and did no use the drill stop. I put a piece of tape around the bit at the depth I wanted the hole to be and used that. Has worked well on several rifles especially those with the tabs rather than the full staple.

 

[Dave W]

Clutch,

I used staples on my first gun and have not used them since (on #5 now). I prefer using dovetailed tabs instead. I can always use the practice for cutting the sight dovetails since those need to look nice.

I like Zonie's idea of silver soldering staples since I had problems peening them tight. I have a bigger (mental) problem with whacking a barrel with a hammer for staples than I do with hacksawing for dovetails.

Dave

 

[wszumera]

Clutch: If your curious, I've used these on a number of guns without a problem but lately, I've taken to silver soldering them after peening them in place, "just to make sure".

Zonie,

Doesn't the heat of silver soldering affect the the bore?

Clutch

PS

Nice looking rifle er carbine.

 

[Zonie]

Clutch: "Doesn't the heat of silver soldering affect the the bore?"

This hasn't been a problem for me.
When I say silver soldering, I'm talking about one of the low temperature silver bearing solders (about 4% silver) which melts in the upper 400 degree F range.
These solders (there are several) are notably stronger than the lead/tin common solders.

There are silver solders available that need to be heated to over 1000 degrees that have higher strengths and they might have an affect on the barrel.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The barrel is a huge heat " sink" if I may be allowed to use a term of the trade. It is unlikely that soldering such a small part as the end of a wire staple into a pre-drilled hole in the bottom of the barrel will affect the barrel at all. I suppose putting a damp rag under the barrel as you are heating it up for the silver solder might give you insurance. Remember that these barrels today are made from steel alloys, with very high melt temperatures. They do not bend, or soften easily, even when heat is applied.

 

[wszumera]

Clutch: If your curious, I've used these on a number of guns without a problem but lately, I've taken to silver soldering them after peening them in place, "just to make sure".

The only problem I've had using these is I managed to set my drill stop incorrectly which resulted in drilling a hole thru the wall of my $220 barrel. The moral of the story is be extra careful when drilling the holes.

What did I do with the barrel? I was fortunate that this happened on the front underlug so I cut off 5 1/2 inches of the barrel, recrowned it and used it to build this short little .54 cal Flintlock:
[url] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/JAMESKING/canoegun14.jpg[/img][/url]

Thats a purty rifle. I'm about to start a topic on barrel length vs velocity. I was reading the "Gunsmith of Grenville County" and he seemed to think 24-26" was what gave best velocity for a barrel length. That sounds right for smokeless but I wonder about real black powder.

Hear is a picture of a seated staple. I don't think it is going anywhere.

Clutch

 

[straightcut]

Zonie:

Could you tell where you get the low melting point silver solder? Peening and soldering sounds like a good "belt and suspenders" approach.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Zonie]

Brownells sells the 4% Silver solder.
Ace Hardware sells the "silver bearing" solder. I am not sure how much silver is in the Ace stuff but it is still much better than a lead/tin solder. Ace used to have 4% silver solder but the last time I was there it was gone.

Many solders have a listing of the elements they are made from and the percentage of each element marked on the package or spool.

 

[straightcut]

Zonie,

Sorry for the delay in responding. I appreciate the information on where to get the silver solder and the type that I should be looking for.

Thanks very much,

Mark

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Just installed the tab type loop on my 38" swampped an tapered GM barrel last weekend, cut the dovetails, tapped the tabs in place applied the heat sink and proceeded to solder them in place. The silver solder helps to restore some of the lost strength from removing the metal for the tabs. :hmm: