Was wondering if any one can help me.I have a reproduction Bess that I would like to modify to a earlier period I really like the looks of Iron hardware and a wooden ramrod.Can any one put a date on the latest iron mounted Bess's.I was thinking something like a 1742 but from what I can find that might be just a little to late may be 1730's.I think that I can get the butt plate from TOTW, also the triger guard.Would the ramrod pipes and the thumb piece also be iron or brass,if iron where would one find them in iron.As for the side plate would this also be iron?This I could forge myself,I could also make the thumb piece and pipes,well I think I could forge the pipes or maybe get a set of pipes from TOTW and modify or maybe just tin a brass set.The nose piece that is cast I would change to a iron nose piece this I could also make.As for the ramrod how was it retained with a spring attached to one of the lock bolts?Would all the locks have a manufacture stamped on the lock plate?Would all said iron be left bright or was there a finish on it?Now lastly can I safley file off the warning and manufacture on the barrel and re polish or maybe silver solder to fill in and polish.I'm sure I have more questions but I'll leave that for another day.Thanks all for any input
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Iron mounted Brown Bess
- Thread starter petlis
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Think the 1730's is probably the better guess. You can change some of the small items but you're still got the straight bottomed and shorter lock plate of the Short Land Pattern which the repro guns are patterened after. Not sure if changes there would be worth the aggrivation. You'll also have to change the triggerguard to the earlier long style and lengthen the buttplate comb to the long, more tapered style, etc. It'd be a lot of work but not impossible. Good luck.
I think the transition from iron to brass was about 1724. Wes is correct about all the changes that you would have to make. I would suggest getting a catalog from the Rifle Shoppe. They have most of the parts for the early Land Pattern Muskets listed and pictured. Getting them may be another story.
Who made your brass-mounted Bess?
Loyalist Arms already offers an 'iron-mounted' 1724 Bess.
http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1724Bess.html
Loyalist Arms already offers an 'iron-mounted' 1724 Bess.
http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1724Bess.html
Well Story I appreciate the info,Think I'll call tomorrow about ordering one.Looks like it would fit the bill and the price ain't bad either.By the time I ordered parts and the time spent not to mention the aggravation I think I would be ahead by ordering one.What does everyone think of this musket?Does the lock have enough drop?Any good or bad about this company?Looks like frizzen is hardened and vent drilled this is good and a choice of wood or steel rammer.What about the trigger profile?I also wonder what kind of wood they are stocked in?Rosewood ...?I think some more research is in order but this is looking sweet.
Well, if you want to go totally Period Correct nuts...
http://revwarprogressive.org/articles/loyalistreview.html
and then
http://revwarprogressive.org/articles/loyalistreview2.html
http://revwarprogressive.org/articles/loyalistreview.html
and then
http://revwarprogressive.org/articles/loyalistreview2.html
Story, I couldn't find the 1724 Bess on their web site,maybe just looking in the wrong place.After reading the reviews it don't look as good but I think it would save me more time and aggravation.The reviews where for the 1728 any other info on the 1724 or are they the same?...Pete
Just that the 1728 review might indicate similar issues with the 1724, if you want to get fanatical about it. You can write them and see if anyone has any experience with the 1724 (which still seems like a great deal for the money).
I have one of the 1728 Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern Muskets. I have placed a picture on one of the other threads for the Brown Bess.
The gun is heavy at about 14 pounds. The barrel is 46 inches long and has a bore of .077". I thought the touch hole was a little low in the pan, but it is a large pan and the ignition is very quick. I do think the gun is a good value for the money.
For the record, the documentation for Land Pattern Muskets marked before 1730 in the colonies is close to non existant.
The gun is heavy at about 14 pounds. The barrel is 46 inches long and has a bore of .077". I thought the touch hole was a little low in the pan, but it is a large pan and the ignition is very quick. I do think the gun is a good value for the money.
For the record, the documentation for Land Pattern Muskets marked before 1730 in the colonies is close to non existant.
I think the loyalist arms muskets have been on a diet lately 
I asked them about the sea service and the doglock muskets and they quote weights of 8 1/4 lb and 9 1/2 lb respectively
Emails are answered promptly and couteously, I encourage anyone with questions to email them direct
I asked them about the sea service and the doglock muskets and they quote weights of 8 1/4 lb and 9 1/2 lb respectively
Emails are answered promptly and couteously, I encourage anyone with questions to email them direct
[For the record, the documentation for Land Pattern Muskets marked before 1730 in the colonies is close to non existant. [/quote] .
Grenadier 1750
would you say that if I went with the iron mounted Bess that I would have a hard time explaining myself?Not to be argumentative I guess I just don't know a lot or enough about the Bess in the new world.I'm trying to portray a hunter/scout in the 1750's in the Catskill region of New York.I don't want a gun that would be new during that time i want a gun that I might have traded for and being of modest means I wouldn't have the best.A man of simple means if you know what I mean.I had a Bess so I was thinking to do some modification and come up with a gun that might be 30 years old,not state of the art for the time .Hence the original post.Still not clear if all hardware was iron if you could help it would be great as a matter of fact if any body could tell me if the hardware was all iron that would be great.
Grenadier 1750
would you say that if I went with the iron mounted Bess that I would have a hard time explaining myself?Not to be argumentative I guess I just don't know a lot or enough about the Bess in the new world.I'm trying to portray a hunter/scout in the 1750's in the Catskill region of New York.I don't want a gun that would be new during that time i want a gun that I might have traded for and being of modest means I wouldn't have the best.A man of simple means if you know what I mean.I had a Bess so I was thinking to do some modification and come up with a gun that might be 30 years old,not state of the art for the time .Hence the original post.Still not clear if all hardware was iron if you could help it would be great as a matter of fact if any body could tell me if the hardware was all iron that would be great.
I think that your next step is some research. One of the best bools for that kind of information is De Witt Bailey's book, "Pattern Dates for British Ordnance Small Arms 1718 -1783". He does a great job of showing the evolution of the Land Pattern Muskets as they evolved from arms purchased by the colonels for their regiment to a distinct pattern as specified for use by the Bitish Army. According to De Witt Bailey, the Pattern 1718 that was iron mounted, was never used in the colonies.
I would also recommend that you get a copy of the Rifle Shoppe catalog. They have all the parts for most of the land Pattern varient muskets. There is also a small book that was prepared by Kit Ravenshear on the process to modify a second model land patern to look more like a first model. That little instruction book would be of great benefit to you. Unfortunantly I don't have a copy. Making your gun look more like a first model would meet your requirements far better than replacing the brass with iron. By replacing the buttplate, side plate and trigger guard with brass first model parts and removing the brass nose cap, you would have the basics of a cut down (from 46" to 42" barrel) first model used by some ranging companies.
I do believe that there are some ways to make your gun look the part without the cost of buying a new gun.
I would also recommend that you get a copy of the Rifle Shoppe catalog. They have all the parts for most of the land Pattern varient muskets. There is also a small book that was prepared by Kit Ravenshear on the process to modify a second model land patern to look more like a first model. That little instruction book would be of great benefit to you. Unfortunantly I don't have a copy. Making your gun look more like a first model would meet your requirements far better than replacing the brass with iron. By replacing the buttplate, side plate and trigger guard with brass first model parts and removing the brass nose cap, you would have the basics of a cut down (from 46" to 42" barrel) first model used by some ranging companies.
I do believe that there are some ways to make your gun look the part without the cost of buying a new gun.
1. Does anyone have a copy of this book?
2. Other than the buttplate, side plate and trigger guard, what other accuracy issues does the Pedersoli Bess have? The "GRICE 1762" would have to go..
3. Does anyone have a list of features where the Pedersoli 2nd Model Bess fails to meet original 2nd Model specifications?
You will have to remove the Grice 1762 and either leave it blank or add Tower 1724 or some such early marking. The lock plate should have a banana shape. It would be quite challenging to make a replacement plate.
A quick Google search for Kit Ravenshear and Brown Bess Conversions came up with this following quote:
As my friend and mentor Kit Ravenshear used to say, some reenactors take a post 1768 Short Land, New Pattern musket (so-called 2nd Model Brown Bess) and call it a "cut down LLP," while others simply add an LLP buttplate and sideplate- as Kit said "create the fiction of an LLP."
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