Is 28 gauge historically correct for 18th century?

[Totez]

So I'm looking around at various groups for reenacting and I was told by one that they weren't sure if 28 gauge was acceptable for the Brigade of the American Revolution standards but if it could be documented it would be perfectly acceptable.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some documentation?

 

[tenngun]

What exactly are you protraing? If your military in this group you should have a military arm, that is to say large bore musket. If you are militia you were expected to have your own arm, and although people were expected to have a military arm most malitias took what they could get. Since the first guns smooth bore weopeans were made down to little sizes. Even trade fusils were seen down in to littlier calibers. Some smooth rifles were made in 30-40 caliber.

 

[Totez]

I am portraying a baker taking up arms and joining a county militia. I'm intending to carry a fowling gun but I would like it to be in 28 gauge so long as it is historically accurate.

 

[azmntman]

A baker? Well whatever you get make sure its rifled good n tight then you can shoot shot and get great DOUGHNUTS! sorry :redface: :rotf: :blah:

 

[Totez]

Yes a baker :grin: breads are my specialty but I'll shoot a hole in it and call it a doughnut if you'd like! :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

I'm about to start on a rifle inspired by "RCA #125", a presumed Virginia gun (who really knows). The original gun is probably 1770's and it was smoothbored at .51 caliber. :wink:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Can't say for sure but I noticed you're listed as "S.E. Pennsylvania". If you intend to portray a person from that area, I'd recommend you look for groups in the area to see what they may have turned up in documentation for the area. For example, Massachusetts specifically required iron or steel ramrods, bayonet or short sword, buckshot, etc. This points directly at larger bored fowlers or muskets. I don't know what the Penn. rules for armament but many of the colonies tried to get their volunteers armed with guns of, at least, similar caliber. Unless you're committed to the 28 gauge, you may have to change. Good luck with your search.

 

[tenngun]

And too keep in mind Pennsylvania was full of Quakers. People who payed the fine rather then serve in the militia, some of whom came running when the war came to thier state.You could have taken your place on the line without ever having shown up for drill.
You local boys, as stated above, will know what they require for thier club, and will provide a good starting place for you to learn what was typical at that time and place.
Some years later the penn hills would see another war. One of the boys that turned out to defend his home was an old yankee carring a sawn off flint musket. It would not have been the gun of the WBTS, however a one of a kind was used in the battle that we know of. How many one of a kinds were used that we don't know of.

 

[George]

They were in use in England at that time, as documented in An Essay on Shooting, by Wm. Cleator.

"We have subjected this matter to the test of experiment, and the result has accordingly been, that a barrel of 22 or 24, which is the largest caliber usually employed in fowling pieces, threw its shot as closely as one of the smallest caliber, viz of 30 or 32."

In this instance he is using the term caliber in the same way we use gauge, and defines it as balls to the pound.

I have one reference to their use in this country, an early one, 1733.

"THE SOUTH CAROLINA GAZETTE
January 27, 1733
Charleston, South Carolina
JUST imported, and to be sold very cheap, by Wm. Lasserre, at his Store at Mr. Lloyd's on the bay.... broad cloths, bullets of 24 and 28 in the pound , gunpowder, &c."

Of course "28 in the pound" is the same as 28 gauge. At that time chances are very high that the bullets were for a smooth-bore gun, probably a fowler.

Spence

 

[Wes/Tex]

Thanks, Spence, was just about to add that the 28 was in use with the French traders and 28 balls per livre was a common bore size with Tulle and other French trade guns. In the French guns, the accepted ball size for that bore size was a ball of .563" diameter. Without getting into a big discussion of how 'balls per pound' and 'balls per livre' varied due to the livre weighing more than an English pound, not to mention the chances of a Penn. volunteer showing up with a 25 to 40 year old French trade gun would be really remote, but yes they did exist.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The 28 gauge gun is historically correct for the period. Most militia regulations called for a gun of military bore.

As a baker, your unit probably would prefer you left the fowler home and brought the portable oven.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Or...you could be the company grenadier and shoot dough-balls! :wink:
https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1393/28/1393284379778.jpg

Not to be confused with dough boys, which is a whole 'nother war!! :rotf:

 

[Totez]

Thank you, things like this are exactly what I am looking for.

 

[Totez]

Stop it. I want that now. Look what you did! :grin:

 

[Wes/Tex]

You could weld a metal dowel up the center of the bore and convert it into a doughnut launcher! :wink: :haha:

 

[Grandpa Ron]

According to “ Colonial Frontier Guns” the average bore for a Tradegun was about 57 cal.

“The Flintlock Fowler” shows many fowling pieces to be of bore diameters in excess of .700” with barrels longer that 44”.

So as you can see the range of smoothbores is quite large and your 28 ga. fits nicely.

I shoot a 28 ga. for a number of reasons.
* It gets 33 balls to the lb. of lead.
* It is the smallest size that qualifies for many smoothbore competitions.
* The components are easy to get.
* I portray a Coureur de bois in the 1730 ”“ 1750 era.

 

[Artificer]

So I'm looking around at various groups for reenacting and I was told by one that they weren't sure if 28 gauge was acceptable for the Brigade of the American Revolution standards but if it could be documented it would be perfectly acceptable.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some documentation?

The Brigade of the American Revolution has been around a long time now. They know a 28 ga smoothie is an authentic and acceptable bore size. What they are really concerned about is if the gun, itself, is safe and within the acceptable range of "authentic correctness." (Note: Many reenactment groups use the term "authentic" to describe a range of historic correctness. They often or usually use the word "original" to denote anything made in the time period of before or during the ARW.)

Now the Brigade has allowed the use of Pedersoli, other Italian flintlocks and Japanese Besses for many years - so you don't have to have a custom gun where each piece must pass a mythical examination of "historic correctness."
Gus

 

[Artificer]

If you look up Brigade units, you will find something like this in almost every unit that mentions firelocks.

Firelocks: A wide variety of firelocks may be carried while portraying militia. However, they must have been available in the colonies prior to 1775. Long Land muskets up to pattern 1756, English fowlers, French fusils and muskets (Fusils Ordinaire and Grenadier, Fusils de Chasse, Model 1717, and Model 1728), Dutch fowlers and muskets, and American fowlers and muskets are all acceptable firelocks. Charelevilles and Short Land pattern muskets are permitted but are discouraged.13 All firelocks must be fitted with a flash guard and period correct hammer cap. Blunderbusses, rifles and 1804/1816 Springfield muskets are prohibited. Please check with a member of the field staff prior to purchasing a musket to ensure it is correct for our portrayal."

Note: RIFLES are often expressly denied in units where they are not correct for that unit. It is BEST to take the advice of checking with a Field Staff Member of any unit you wish to participate with to see what they allow for firelocks in their unit/s.
Gus

 

[kingsax26]

Just my two cents, but are you dead set on a 28ga ? I was in a similar quandry when I had my fowler built.. I ended up going with a 24ga, and feel its a good compromise. I was looking for correct caliber but also something that would not chew through lead like a starved ethiopian.... I can say that i am perfectly happy. however I must confess that I still have a 28ga smooth on my want list. But 24/ .58 would be a military size bore....just a smaller one.

 

[plmeek]

Bryon,

I don't mean to offend you, but you have it backwards.

The larger the gauge number, the smaller the bore and ball. A 28 gauge has a bore ID of .55" compared to your 24 gauge with a bore ID of .58".

Your confusion is understandable because the whole fur trade era balls-to-the-pound, modern gauge sizes, and modern caliber sizes thing is a can of worms as Wes/Tex and Grandpa Ron alluded to.

Contrary to common understanding, the number of balls-to-the-pound is not the same number for modern gauge. In other words, a gun that will take 28 balls-to-the-pound is not the same size gun as a modern 28 gauge. As Grandpa Ron stated, 33 balls-to-the-pound fits his 28 gauge gun.

Balls-to-the-pound refers to the size of the ball. Modern gauge refers to the size of the bore. The difference between a properly fitting ball and the bore size is called windage and is necessary to allow space for patch material and fouling build up. The amount of windage was usually between .01" and .03" in hunting arms and up to .05" in early military smoothbores.

It is true that 24 and 28 balls-to-the-pound are the most frequently size guns seen in documents from the fur trade era. But a 24 balls-to-the-pound gun would most likely have a bore size equivalent to a modern 20 gauge. A 28 balls-to-the-pound gun would have a bore size equivalent to a modern 24 gauge.

See what I mean by a can of worms?

Phil