Is .50 cal. roundball enough for a cow elk?

[silly goose]

I never said a 50 cal won't kill an elk, I guess I don't understand how you can compare using a light gun to using archery. I will probably never have the opportunity to hunt elk, but If I did, you can bet I would not be taking a 50 cal, I would feel much more comfortable with a .62, and properly placed at that.

Hang on, my thought process changed...

Are you saying that if you use a 50 cal and hunt like you were using a bow, and having the discipline to only take the best of shots that an archer would take? I would agree with that, but I would still take the .62. :wink:

 

[cynthialee]

The guy I bought my first Hawken from ussed the 50 he sold me to take Elk every year. He was ussing heavy conicals to get the job done and 100 grains of 2f Pyro.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

 

[cynthialee]

Even though I know what those numbers represent, it doesn't mean anything to me, as I do not know what amount of energy is needed to do the job on any particular animal.
I just know that it (the .50 with conicals) can do the job, because I know an old guy who did it year after year.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

conicals are always better in a 50

 

[BrownBear]

conicals are always better in a 50

I've only seen three elk taken with a 50RB. All were one shot kills. All were by the same guys that came to our place and used 50 conicals two years before and ALL those conical shots required followup shots that time.

Conicals would have done the job the first time around, but none of the guys had practiced much due to the recoil of the conicals. When they came back with the same guns shooting RBs, they'd done a lot of practicing and knew to stalk close and take clean shots. Results would have been the same if the guys could have shot the conicals worth a poot and had taken time to stalk rather than taking rotten longer shots.

Being on the "receiving end" of those rotten conical shooters and shots, as in having to be the one to track down the wounded elk and get them out after putting them down, I'll take a careful, accurate shooter any day no matter what he stuffs down the bore, over a guy that lobs a conical (or RB for that matter) and hopes for the best.

It's the skill and judgement of the shooter and has nothing to do with one projectile being inherently better than the other. The conical has no more margin for error with a bum shot. A gut shot elk is a gut shot elk.

 

[roundball]

Interesting chart...what is the source?
Is there a link?

 

[Sperit de bois]

So let me get this correct!!! Your saying shot placement is far more likely to put an elk down then firepower or projectile.This event you witnessed first hand, on more than one ocassion with a muzzle loader being the rifle of choice and conicals as well as round ball were used with the results you reported is most interesting.
And you have witnessed this first hand on more than one ocassion,over a period of time,years!!!!!!!!!!
Huh!! Me, I have never seen an elk,got moose no elk here,let alone shot one,so I will just have to take your word for it ,,,,,,,as you have seen/shot and retrieved elk.
Ever experiance a muzzle loader used to kill a moose?????or bear??
So you been there,, done that,,, first hand.

 

[hoochiepapa]

I knew a guy that hunted elk every year with a .25-20, and was pretty successful, until they outlawed that for elk. I saw my dad wound two elk with a borrowed .50 T/C Hawken, and took my advice on a .54. Unless you have the patience to wait for the perfect shot, I would say get a bigger caliber. That being said, I have a Cabela's Hawken in percussion .54 I will take the chance and loan you, if you can promise in front of everyone here that you will send it back. I have killed several bull elk with it, and used the Hornady Great Plains bullet. I will send along a box of bullets, too.
Time's a wastin'!

 

[Idaho Ron]

Mike I am not relying to you I am just next in line.

I find it quite amusing that a lot of people on this forum equate PRB with accuracy and they equate the Conical with more power but less accuracy.
There is no reason that a conical can not be as accurate if not MORE accurate than a PRB. The biggest problem I see is guys shooting with too much powder. All of my bullet shooters all like about 80 gr of Pyrodex P. With good recoil pads these loads are not hard to shoot and control. My son has grown up shooting a 460 gr bullet with 80 of pyrodex P. He can really shoot that gun and load. If a boy can handle a conical a man should be able to. Ron

 

[BE Wild Willy]

I knew a guy that hunted elk every year with a .25-20, and was pretty successful, until they outlawed that for elk. I saw my dad wound two elk with a borrowed .50 T/C Hawken, and took my advice on a .54. Unless you have the patience to wait for the perfect shot, I would say get a bigger caliber. That being said, I have a Cabela's Hawken in percussion .54 I will take the chance and loan you, if you can promise in front of everyone here that you will send it back. I have killed several bull elk with it, and used the Hornady Great Plains bullet. I will send along a box of bullets, too.
Time's a wastin'!

Wow Brother, that is one kind offer! Your generosity and willingness to share will definitely bless you throughout your life, as I'm sure it has already. I will pass on your offer as I couldn't risk any damages to your weapon, as we all know s**t can happen while afield. That said, thank you again for the wonderful gesture.

 

[BrownBear]

So let me get this correct!!! Your saying shot placement is far more likely to put an elk down then firepower or projectile.This event you witnessed first hand, on more than one ocassion with a muzzle loader being the rifle of choice and conicals as well as round ball were used with the results you reported is most interesting.
And you have witnessed this first hand on more than one ocassion,over a period of time,years!!!!!!!!!!
Huh!! Me, I have never seen an elk,got moose no elk here,let alone shot one,so I will just have to take your word for it ,,,,,,,as you have seen/shot and retrieved elk.
Ever experiance a muzzle loader used to kill a moose?????or bear??
So you been there,, done that,,, first hand.

They were my guests (all in the same party) and I was standing right beside them. And like I said, I had to do the follow-up tracking and shooting. And when they left after the first trip, I told them they'd only be welcome to hunt our place again if they took a marksmanship test at our range before hunting again. They did a lot of shooting over the two years, and it obviously paid off. I didn't care what they used when they came back, but they opted for RBs for less recoil and lots cheaper practice. Worked for me.

 

[hoochiepapa]

I know things happen, and I'm willing to take the chance. Nevada's not all that far from here, reconsider. I used 100 grains of pyrodex, but black powder would probably work better. The ball's in your court!

 

[dave n]

I've used a 370 gr maxi over 110gr of pyro in my renagade for yrs (ouch)Seen some devastating kills on deer with it . I wouldn't think twice about using it on elk . 1 in 66 twist could be a problem with accuracy though .
Like everyone is saying , shot placement is everything .
Just my 2 cents .

 

[screamin]

I've killed quite a few elk with both traditional bows and compounds. The longest shot being 52 yards with a compound. If you hit them right, broadside through the lungs, the arrows fly right threw, even out of a longbow moving at 180fps at 30 yards. When you open up an 1 1/8" hole in elk lungs they go down quick. Miss the lungs and you are in for a long tracking job if you spook them, I would think the sound of the gun going off would be enough to spook them.

I've never shot one with a muzzleloader but I would think a well placed 1/2" ball would deflate those lungs almost as fast as those broadheads. Since I own a 54 I would use it over a 50. But if I was to use a 50 I'd have that baby loaded as stiff as I could accurately shoot it. Then I would only take a broadside shot, not a quartering too you shot, you'll hit the shoulder and that will be the end of that. Or a quartering away because if you catch a lot of intestine full of plant material it is going to slow that ball way down, its like shooting through a wet hay bale and stops arrows fast, I think it would have to have an effect on a 180gr ball. Elk can also go a long long way if you only get one lung.

By the way, I also have a muzzy deer tag for area 6 so maybe I'll see ya up there. Or do you have an area 7 tag? I hear most of the elk are in the Bull Run Mtns in 6 which happens to be on fire right now.

I also have some of those Hornady Pa's and my 50 doesn't like em, but it is 1:48 twist. If you need them let me know and we can work something out.

 

[screamin]

By the way, I'm not sure if this is allowed or not so please excuse me if it isn't, I mean no harm, but on this webpage
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=084174

if you scroll down you will see the vitals of an elk for shot placement. Everyone needs to know this stuff sooo...

 

[USMA65]

That is very good info for any hunter. Thanks for posting that link.

 

[hanshi]

Never shot an elk or personally know anyone who has; but I would have no problem using a .50 prb at up to long bow range but no farther. Good hunting and good shooting is what fills your freezer, not m.e. levels.

 

[LaBonte]

I've hunted with muzzleloaders for 51 years and have taken 20 elk in the last 40 years of hunting the critters: 3 with ctg guns (7 x 57, 338-06, 45-70), and the rest with round balls. I've also been in on the shooting of maybe another 100 elk or so (both as a guide and a partner - about 75 were with muzzleloaders). I have seen elk taken with everything from a 257 Savage, 30-30, and on up to a 470 Nitro and a 45-120 Sharps in ctg guns and in muzzleloaders from 45 Express (i.e. conicals) up to an 8 bore.

1 elk was with an 11 gauge original Potsdam musket - a rear end going away shot on a big bull (6-700 pounds) at 90 yards after the hunter I was guiding made a bad shot - the ball went from one end to the other - load was a 585 grn ball with 120 grns of 2F.

8 cows and 2 spike bulls (for myself I don't hunt antlers only meat) with a 54 which is my favorite caliber overall (partly since I can use the same balls in my 28 bore smoothie) - my loads were .526 ball or .530 ball with 85-100 grns 3F (different loads for 3 different rifles)

Finally what the OP asked about - 4 cows and 2 bulls with a 50 caliber - load .490 ball with 80-90 grns of 3F.

All but one were one shot kills, none over 75 yards, and the longest run (after a heart shot) was 125 yards. Most bit the dust within 50 yards at the most. On the other hand I also turned down plenty of shots when I knew better than chance a wounded critter - but I do that whether I'm hunting with a muzzleloader or a centerfire.

So yep based on my own experience as well as that of several others, a 50 caliber will do the job as long as you do yours and nope you don't need super heavy charges or big heavy conicals to do it with either - just know your gun and yourself and as the man once said your "limitations" - put a ball into the boiler room and you will put meat on the table.

Ever experience a muzzle loader used to kill a moose?????or bear??

Speret - never shot a moose but have seen a few taken with muzzleloaders mostly with 54-58's plus a couple of 62's and 69's - all with round ball. As for black bear, many moons ago I hunted them with a passion when I lived out in the Pacific Northwest. I took 30 of them with muzzleloaders - again most with my 54's, but two with my Potsdam 11 bore, five with my 50, four with my Manton 16 bore, and two with my Rigby 45 Express. I used the same loads as for elk and again knew my limitations - on bear no shots were taken over 40 yards, most from ground blinds. They ranged in size from 150 pounds to 400 pounds with most around 200-225.
Only had to do one follow up and that's when a friend had an unfortunate bad shot (critter took a step just as he fired and instead of a chest shot he hit the paunch - bear weighed about 250). He ran off and we let him hole up for a while before going into the bush after him. He made a charge across a small clearing (about 25 yards across) and my buddy hit him once with his 54 - a good, but not stopping shot that turned him towards me and I hit with a 12 bore double (a one two shot) at about 15 yards - hit him good and it was like he ran into a brick wall...those big 500+ grn balls do a good job when it's up close and personal like.

 

[BE Wild Willy]

Thank you LaBonte. I will strive to know my limitations, 50yds.(+/-), and make the shot count if it presents itself.