I have a 62 jaeger, it is easy on you with that wide butt up to 90gr or so, but when you get over that it will rock you.
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is .54 recoil notably worse than .50?
- Thread starter Magungo1066
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Bob McBride
54 Cal.
....and the difference in the weight of the barrel. That math is a bit much for me but it could be as much as a pound.
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
Me neither, so long as I use 1F in the 10 bore and don't shoot a 1.5"/2.5" drop large bore rifle too many times from the bench....
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
Not enough for me to really notice.
Circumstance also plays into it.
If you are shooting at a fleeting target you won't feel a thing.
If you are up to your umpteenth shot chances are each shot is more and more perceptable.
Personally I can't tell the difference between my CVA in 50 and my GPR in 54.
If you are shooting at a fleeting target you won't feel a thing.
If you are up to your umpteenth shot chances are each shot is more and more perceptable.
Personally I can't tell the difference between my CVA in 50 and my GPR in 54.
Actually "felt recoil" is a matter of perception...,
How a person feels recoil also includes:
Stock shape, if the stock is a very poor fit to the shooter, the shooter perceives more recoil,
Butt plate construction, a thin metal butt plate with squared edges will give a person more "felt" recoil than one that is wide with rounded edges,
Shooter's position, a prone position will cause a shooter to "feel" the recoil more than sitting or standing, if the shooter doesn't have that rifle tight against the shoulder or lifts the head from the stock, again the feel of the recoil will be more.
Powder, the feel of the recoil is more when the powder burns quick, so equal amounts of 3Fg vs. 1Fg the 3Fg. will give a perception of more recoil.
Twist Rate, the twist rate of 1:48 compared to slow twists, will amplify the feel of recoil (especially in a poorly shaped stock) as it causes uncomfortable torque to be imparted to the shooter, or as one British author put it in 1807 regarding American rifles, ...a "disagreeable" recoil.
As for the physics as others have mentioned, there is more mass going from the shooter, then there is more push against the shooter. The mass difference is pretty negligible.
LD
Loyalist Dave hit on it. Weight of gun, powder charge, mass of ball or bullet, do all have an effect on recoil. I too think that recoil is perceived by the shooter as heavy or light depending on his ability to tolerate it. What I deem light recoil has been complained about by other shooters. What they have perceived as light I haven't even felt. A lot has to do with the shooter rather than the gun or load.
Twowithone
40 Cal.
I cant feel any difference between my GPR 54 cal and my 50 cal Thompson Hawkens
"Assuming same powder and same gun"
From the OP's post the only variable in what he asks is; the weight of the rifle going from 50 to 54 with the 54 being lighter in weight and the weight of the ball going from 50 to 54 with the 54 being heavier.
Everything else is held constant, thus I cannot see how the recoil from a 54 is notably worse. than a 50.
From the OP's post the only variable in what he asks is; the weight of the rifle going from 50 to 54 with the 54 being lighter in weight and the weight of the ball going from 50 to 54 with the 54 being heavier.
Everything else is held constant, thus I cannot see how the recoil from a 54 is notably worse. than a 50.
you won't feel a thing when a deer is in front of you.
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you won't feel a thing when a deer is in front of you.
Amen to that!
Newtire
32 Cal.
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I see a lot of variables and differences in opinion. I think that you have to shoot the gun to get a real idea on how much one kicks over the other. I have shot some guns of the same caliber, but one kicks more than the other. Stock drop, butt shape may have something to do with it as well as all the other things mentioned already. I see one guy saying his 10 ga really kicks and I believe it although a lightweight Pedersoli is going to kick a lot more than some heavier gun. I have one 10 ga. that I love shooting but a lightweight Pedersoli 12 I have makes my shoulder hurt a lot more. I'd say, try it if you can before you buy one. Just my 2 cents.
Col. Batguano
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Loyalist Dave brings up a point I was discussing with a shooting buddy the other day. Namely the counteractive torque created from accelerating the projectile from zero to its' ultimate RPM. A left hand twist in the rifling will twist the gun away from a righty, and right hand twist will move it in to a righty in supplementing / lessening felt recoil. Somebody with a greater understanding of physics than me is going to have to weigh in here on the ultimate calculations, but intuitively it seems that that movement is going to pale in comparison to the force exerted in accelerating a ball from zero to Mach 1.5 in the course of 3'-4' in just under .05 seconds.
I would hazard that the recoil "torque" the Brit was referring to was more likely from rearward motion, not actual twist, as the rifle would be about 300 times the mass of a ball...Actually "felt recoil" is a matter of perception...,
How a person feels recoil also includes:
Stock shape, if the stock is a very poor fit to the shooter, the shooter perceives more recoil,
Butt plate construction, a thin metal butt plate with squared edges will give a person more "felt" recoil than one that is wide with rounded edges,
Shooter's position, a prone position will cause a shooter to "feel" the recoil more than sitting or standing, if the shooter doesn't have that rifle tight against the shoulder or lifts the head from the stock, again the feel of the recoil will be more.
Powder, the feel of the recoil is more when the powder burns quick, so equal amounts of 3Fg vs. 1Fg the 3Fg. will give a perception of more recoil.
Twist Rate, the twist rate of 1:48 compared to slow twists, will amplify the feel of recoil (especially in a poorly shaped stock) as it causes uncomfortable torque to be imparted to the shooter, or as one British author put it in 1807 regarding American rifles, ...a "disagreeable" recoil.
As for the physics as others have mentioned, there is more mass going from the shooter, then there is more push against the shooter. The mass difference is pretty negligible.
LD
Except that the British settled on a much larger caliber rifle with larger powder charges than those used in the American rifles they had captured and sent to England. The British rifle which did not give a "disagreeable recoil". Thus I'd venture to say that due to the fact the British employed what should give them even more recoil, but..., reduced the twist rate of the barrel on their Baker rifle from the American 1:48 or a tad slower to as slow as 1:108 to 1:120, the major difference was the rate of twisting of the round ball within the barrels.
LD
LD
Pete G
76 Cal.
...to answer the question, no.
jimhallam
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The whole thing is complicated by the term "PERCEIVED" recoil, which is a personal opinion, but obviously affected by such factors as the area and the shape of the butt-plate (and the size of the firer?).
Over-simplifying the physics behind "recoil" - Newton's Laws of Motion applies:-
The Second Law ( F = ma) says that the force needed to move an object depends upon its MASS and the ACCELERATION given to the object, (assuming that the force is constant then the velocity achieved keeps increasing - as the gases from the propellant keeps applying a force***, whereas in something like a catapuly there is a short-lived IMPULSE) *** very complex as the volume the gases occupy is increasing as the projectile travels down the bore.
The Third Law is "When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body " (sometimes referred to as "Action and Reaction are equal and opposite) --- hence the rearward movement of the firearm.
Combining the two it makes sense that when the 1 oz ball from a 16bore leaves the muzzle of a 150 oz gun then the rearward velocity of the gun is (about) 150th of the muzzle velocity.... so the heavier the gun the slower it slams back. (sometimes written as Mv = mV)
As for "torque" this is a twisting motion. In a rifled firearm the "ball/bullet" is trying to move straight forward (Newton's FIRST Law --- "an object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force ") but the rifling impedes it so the bullet forces the barrel in the opposite direction to the twist of the rifling.
The next paragraph may be breaking the rules as it refers to my experiences with BL Howdah pistols --- but the same thing would be noticed with ML ones.
At one time I had a .577/20bore*** smoothbore Howdah. Firing it my hand ended up above my head -- but the back of the hand was still pointing at 3 o'clock. *** A slightly necked down case.
I also had a 16bore rifled Howdah. Firing that my hand again moved upwards but I realised that the back of my hand was at 10 o'clock ----- the TORQUE twisting the pistol and the hand holding it.
Just to make things less serious, I must relate this story....
We all know that at Gun Shows there are allways groups "led" by a self-appointed Club Guru, who thinks that he knows everything... ... generally when someone is just about to buy a bundhook this character will interject "Oh, you don't want to buy THAT!" Grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
I just couldn't resist it at one show where I had a nice DB Howdah on the table... so I said to the Guru -- "Did you notice that this is one of the singble trigger recoil-less Howdahs?" to which he replied, "Oh yes --- very rare.".
One of his companions asked me "How does that work"? Answer --- "The LH barrel has a RH twist and the RH barrel has a LH twist and when they go off together the recoil cancels out!"
Fred Wilkinson (well-known British author) and DeWitt Bailey were standing nearby and they almost choked with laughter... but the Guru just nodded wisely and walked away.
Best wishes to all from a locked-down UK --- I am 250 yards from the Bisley ranges where there are 108 targets up to 600yards, 50 at 1000yards (and a few up to 1200y), 27 at 100 and 9 at 200 on "Short Siberia", a sporting rifle complex with static and moving targets, three pistol ranges (50, 30 and 8 targets), a range for zeroing rifles, a shotgun layout ----- ALL CLOSED ;-(((((((
Over-simplifying the physics behind "recoil" - Newton's Laws of Motion applies:-
The Second Law ( F = ma) says that the force needed to move an object depends upon its MASS and the ACCELERATION given to the object, (assuming that the force is constant then the velocity achieved keeps increasing - as the gases from the propellant keeps applying a force***, whereas in something like a catapuly there is a short-lived IMPULSE) *** very complex as the volume the gases occupy is increasing as the projectile travels down the bore.
The Third Law is "When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body " (sometimes referred to as "Action and Reaction are equal and opposite) --- hence the rearward movement of the firearm.
Combining the two it makes sense that when the 1 oz ball from a 16bore leaves the muzzle of a 150 oz gun then the rearward velocity of the gun is (about) 150th of the muzzle velocity.... so the heavier the gun the slower it slams back. (sometimes written as Mv = mV)
As for "torque" this is a twisting motion. In a rifled firearm the "ball/bullet" is trying to move straight forward (Newton's FIRST Law --- "an object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force ") but the rifling impedes it so the bullet forces the barrel in the opposite direction to the twist of the rifling.
The next paragraph may be breaking the rules as it refers to my experiences with BL Howdah pistols --- but the same thing would be noticed with ML ones.
At one time I had a .577/20bore*** smoothbore Howdah. Firing it my hand ended up above my head -- but the back of the hand was still pointing at 3 o'clock. *** A slightly necked down case.
I also had a 16bore rifled Howdah. Firing that my hand again moved upwards but I realised that the back of my hand was at 10 o'clock ----- the TORQUE twisting the pistol and the hand holding it.
Just to make things less serious, I must relate this story....
We all know that at Gun Shows there are allways groups "led" by a self-appointed Club Guru, who thinks that he knows everything... ... generally when someone is just about to buy a bundhook this character will interject "Oh, you don't want to buy THAT!" Grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
I just couldn't resist it at one show where I had a nice DB Howdah on the table... so I said to the Guru -- "Did you notice that this is one of the singble trigger recoil-less Howdahs?" to which he replied, "Oh yes --- very rare.".
One of his companions asked me "How does that work"? Answer --- "The LH barrel has a RH twist and the RH barrel has a LH twist and when they go off together the recoil cancels out!"
Fred Wilkinson (well-known British author) and DeWitt Bailey were standing nearby and they almost choked with laughter... but the Guru just nodded wisely and walked away.
Best wishes to all from a locked-down UK --- I am 250 yards from the Bisley ranges where there are 108 targets up to 600yards, 50 at 1000yards (and a few up to 1200y), 27 at 100 and 9 at 200 on "Short Siberia", a sporting rifle complex with static and moving targets, three pistol ranges (50, 30 and 8 targets), a range for zeroing rifles, a shotgun layout ----- ALL CLOSED ;-(((((((
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If it kicks too hard, use less powder.....
Or ffg , fg.in the same volume.
Or ffg , fg.in the same volume.
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