Is a wad or patch necessary?
- Thread starter JTL1977AD
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
Sure, you can load a bare ball directly atop your powder. You need to carry muzzle up to prevent the loose ball from rolling forward off the powder charge. Consider TOW or veggie wad atop the ball to keep it all seated in place.
For an upgrade, seat a wad of TOW (or vegetable fiber wad) between powder & ball, also using TOW (or wad) to hold the ball in place. I've used this extensively and have found it to give me better accuracy than powder + an overpowder wad + a fiber cushion wad + ball + overball card. Less stuff to carry & quicker reload time.
I load RB's about the same as shot in a smoothbore, and found patching a RB to be the least accurate load I've used. I DO use a paper shot cup when loading shot over TOW, and mostly not when using a veg fiber wad overpowder.
For an upgrade, seat a wad of TOW (or vegetable fiber wad) between powder & ball, also using TOW (or wad) to hold the ball in place. I've used this extensively and have found it to give me better accuracy than powder + an overpowder wad + a fiber cushion wad + ball + overball card. Less stuff to carry & quicker reload time.
I load RB's about the same as shot in a smoothbore, and found patching a RB to be the least accurate load I've used. I DO use a paper shot cup when loading shot over TOW, and mostly not when using a veg fiber wad overpowder.
Many Klatch
69 Cal.
- Joined
- May 19, 2006
- Messages
- 3,498
- Reaction score
- 268
After a smoothbore has been shot a few times and gets good and dirty a round ball without a patch will fit tighter. Loading without a patch on the roundball results in less accuracy and velocity but for a hurry up second shot at close range it is acceptable.
Forget trying to load shot directly over the powder, that is just a waste of shot and powder.
Forget trying to load shot directly over the powder, that is just a waste of shot and powder.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2005
- Messages
- 5,229
- Reaction score
- 10,918
Hi,
Yes of course you can load unpatched round balls. That was the case for military cartridge loads during the 18th and early 19th centuries. They did stuff the cartridge paper on top or put the ball still wrapped in paper down the barrel so it would not roll out. I attached a photo of a target shot with the musket shown. The first, second, and 5-shot groups were shot with patched round balls. The groups labelled "A" were loose unpatched ball. You can see the difference in precision.
dave
Yes of course you can load unpatched round balls. That was the case for military cartridge loads during the 18th and early 19th centuries. They did stuff the cartridge paper on top or put the ball still wrapped in paper down the barrel so it would not roll out. I attached a photo of a target shot with the musket shown. The first, second, and 5-shot groups were shot with patched round balls. The groups labelled "A" were loose unpatched ball. You can see the difference in precision.
dave
Something needs to keep the ball in and prevent gas blowing around the ball. Military used paper cartridges and that formed a wad. Bark, grass, bits of old blanket, old felt from worn out saddles, picked hemp and unspun wool are all mentioned.
We are told that old boys running buffalo would put a few ball in their mouths ride beside the buffs, shoot, pour powder directly from horn down barrel drop a ball from their mouth to hand then drop that down the barrel, give the butt a tap on the saddle then shoot. Trying to spit the ball down the bore on a galloping horse will ruin your smile.
They were shooting at the range of a few feet. All the dangers in such a scenario pales when compared to galloping a horse inside a stampeading herd of buffalo.
You will find your smoothie works better wadded or patched.
We are told that old boys running buffalo would put a few ball in their mouths ride beside the buffs, shoot, pour powder directly from horn down barrel drop a ball from their mouth to hand then drop that down the barrel, give the butt a tap on the saddle then shoot. Trying to spit the ball down the bore on a galloping horse will ruin your smile.
They were shooting at the range of a few feet. All the dangers in such a scenario pales when compared to galloping a horse inside a stampeading herd of buffalo.
You will find your smoothie works better wadded or patched.
rdstrain49
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2010
- Messages
- 460
- Reaction score
- 3
One thing not mention, you will have a very leaded barrel to clean if you shoot an un-patched ball. I'd rather use a patch and have easy clean up.
Brokennock
Cannon
I use a wax under my roundball and thin card over it to hold it in place, no (as in zero) leading issues. And FAR more accurate than my most accurate patched load.
Please explain the wax under the ball, this sounds interesting.
Brokennock
Cannon
Supposed to be "wad" not "wax." My apologies for not proofreading.
Understand, happens to me all the time. No matter how many times I read it before posting I can’t see the mistakes until after posted.
Why are you capitalizing TOW?
Do you mean just normal flax tow or some acronym? Just trying to see why you're doing that.
Do you mean just normal flax tow or some acronym? Just trying to see why you're doing that.
RAEDWALD
40 Cal.
Replying directly to your OP JTL1977AD. Yes you can put a bare ball home on the powder but there is a risk it will roll forwards. Thus some form of wadding is desirable.
Armies used a paper cartridge including the ball at the top. Emptied the powder down the barrel (after using a little for the pan) and put the whole cartridge down the barrel paper first. The paper scrunching under the ramming to form a wad and secures the paper wrapped ball to it. In a civilian musket one can use a larger ball than the military used so the accuracy is better than people suppose.
When I want accuracy from mine I use a thick soft felt wad under the ball, KY Jelly on top (other water based gels are available) and a thin soft felt wad on top of that. Then the whole assembly (inserted one piece at a time) is rammed home smearing the barrel with water to soften any fouling which the wads wipe clean. This allows as large a ball as one can readily ram down the barrel.
Normally I just use paper cartridges. In both methods a large charge will help maintain it's accuracy out to 100 yards.
Armies used a paper cartridge including the ball at the top. Emptied the powder down the barrel (after using a little for the pan) and put the whole cartridge down the barrel paper first. The paper scrunching under the ramming to form a wad and secures the paper wrapped ball to it. In a civilian musket one can use a larger ball than the military used so the accuracy is better than people suppose.
When I want accuracy from mine I use a thick soft felt wad under the ball, KY Jelly on top (other water based gels are available) and a thin soft felt wad on top of that. Then the whole assembly (inserted one piece at a time) is rammed home smearing the barrel with water to soften any fouling which the wads wipe clean. This allows as large a ball as one can readily ram down the barrel.
Normally I just use paper cartridges. In both methods a large charge will help maintain it's accuracy out to 100 yards.
I was once running a smoothbore shoot at a rendezvous and a contestant was going to show us how to just drop a ball down the barrel, tap the butt of the gun on the ground to seat the ball,prime and shoot. Problem was the targets were sightly downhill. As he was aiming the ball rolled out of the barrel. I yelled "miss".
kingsax26
45 Cal.
in my trials i ahve found one very important factoid. Yes you can load a bare ball on podwer, but you suffer serious performance/ power issues. for ease of use I actually load my powder, 2 OS cards, bare ball and then a third OS card to keep it all together. I get just as good accuracy as if i used a fiber wad! and i only ahve to carry one type of material to load with. i Get 5-6 inch groups at 50 yards which is about my normal for an unpatched smoothbore
kingsax26
45 Cal.
I disagree on the leading issue. I have been shooting nothing but bare ball for over two years. I have no leading whatsoever in my barrels. also, its a smoothbore , if there was leading it would have zero effect on accuracy and the amount of leading required to affect loading would be astronomical. Assuming you have a .620 bore and a .610 ball....thats still .005 thick layer of leading around the whole barrel! I don't see it happening ever. and further more, if leading were an issue...what about all the people who shoot shot without a shotcup? theyd have all kinds of issues. leading can be an issue yes...but im thinking that really only a rifle issue.
JTL1977AD said:
The key word here is "necessary". Depends on what performance you want from your smoothie. Read a lot of the old posts on this subject and decide what you want from your gun. Hint: most use a wad or patching or both. Gotta tell ye sumptin'.
rdstrain49
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2010
- Messages
- 460
- Reaction score
- 3
1776, you are absolutely correct. I expect much better performance from my smooth bore than 5 or 6" groups at 50 yards. Properly prepared my Issac Haines smooth bore will clover leaf groups at 50 yards. I use a snug, not tight patch and 1 1/2F Swiss. But that's just me, your mileage may vary.
Many years ago I put the same question to a old rifleman who had used a Bess for many decades .JTL1977AD said:
His answer was .You need a good fit ball straight onto the powder. When asked about a patch his answer was They are for novices
Feltwad
RAEDWALD
40 Cal.
Feltwad. If the shooter was who I think it was he used the system from the modern French musket shooters and which I described above of soft felt wads and water based gel. The ball being as large as will just roll down the barrel. You are making a self cleaning felt sabot which keeps the ball centralised in the bore as it rides down the barrel.
