Is it uncool to use Pyrodex?

[dave951]

Pyrodex because of it's perchlorate roots is highly corrosive, much more so than real black powder. Perchlorates are also part of the problem with corrosive primers in surplus military centerfire ammo and if it will ruin a centerfire firearm, it will certainly do the same on your muzzleloader. So yes, it is undeniably an issue.

So from this thread I've observed that there is a segment of the muzzleloading community that say they use Pdex cuz they can't get real black anywhere but I'd bet a dollar that they are only looking in lgs or brick n mortar places. For reasons stated earlier, finding real black at a brick n mortar retail place is not going to happen. Real black is easily had online. Pool your order with a local reenactment group, join a NMLRA Charter Club or check into fireworks supply houses. Real black is available if you are serious about using it.

I won't use Pdex. Is it elitism? I don't think so since I've seen quite a few guns with ruined bores from using it and the owners believing the original hype surrounding it and I choose not to go down that path. If a sub must be used, I like T7 far better than Pdex. So make your choice.

 

[toot]

Definitely uncool. But who cares? It is more readily available for some folks and it pushes the ball out the barrel similar to real black.

we all know that the clean up time is greater, and a follow up in a day or two!

 

[ILoveMuzzleloading]

Whatever gets you shooting is good by me, but Ill wear white after Labor Day too. Really appreciate the history of pyrodex being shared here.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

It will shoot, however I guarantee that it has the potential to rust barrel and parts, residue is much harder to clean up. If you only have 2 options one being 777 and one pyrodex I would definitely recommend 777 just work your loads up from a reduced starting point.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Probably for the Fifth Time.....no matter what you use just clean your Gun well. ....yawn....

 

[Snydly]

A person can shoot any powder he or she likes but I really cannot believe there are people here in the U.S that say they cannot get real black powder. Even during the pandemic I could get real black powder. Just had to be patient. 2 days ago I received a shipment of real black powder from Graf & Sons. Only 5 lbs,, but that is all I needed. Some Swiss and some Schutzen(sp). 5 for 175 and that included the hazmat. There is real black powder to be had.

 

[sturmkatze]

Use what you have access to. It's a shame snobbery has to creep into every facet of life, even our hobby.

It's not snobbery. I shoot flintlocks. I have some American Pioneer powder that I often shoot in cap lock guns.

I don't like needing a bunch of powders... All the Billy-Bob, boutique hunting stuff for your inline won't work in my guns, so I am not buying it.

 

[Walkingeagle]

How many would pay this price per pound?

 

[SPQR70AD]

The secret of the Local Gun Shop (LGS) is that the money is NOT made with the sales of the guns, but with the sales of the consumables that go with the guns, i.e. ammo, targets, cleaning agents, and lubricants/rust preventative.

Pyrodex was developed because shipping and storage regulations changed regarding black powder, and a lot of Mom & Pop black powder stores, or LGS that had a large black powder customer base, were harmed, because they could not store black powder as they had in the past. So black powder was de-engineered.

They took black powder, which was pretty much 70% Potassium Nitrate, 20% Sulfur, and 10% charcoal, give or take variations in formula. As such this was considered an "explosive" or the original "low explosive" (with Dynamite being the first "High Explosive") They then cut the Potassium Nitrate by about half, using Potassium Perchlorate, so that Pyrodex is roughly 35% Potassium Nitrate, 35% Potassium Perchlorate, 20% Sulfur, and 10% charcoal, give or take again, particular formulas. The Potassium Perchlorate (Material Safety Data Sheets won't give the exact formula, as those are trade secrets) was a change that was done to reduce the burning speed (called deflagration) of the black powder, so it was no longer classified as "explosive" and was reclassified under the name Pyrodex as a "flammable". VOILA, Mom & Pop could offer a propellant again to their black powder shooting customers.

It was and is not without some problems. It's just as corrosive as BP, because it really is a form of BP, and it's often tough to get to work in a flintlock.

But it did save a bunch of small businesses, and a lot of those were set up as "retirement jobs" as guys retired and made money off their hobby, to supplement their fixed pension incomes.

People may scoff, but perhaps show a little respect ?

LD

the guy that invented pyrodex saved hodgdon from going bankrupt and got killed at the factory making pyrodex when it blew up. steve Hodgdon was devastated by his death. I dont know where pyro in flints hard to ignite. I have an old cheap CVA flint pistol and had no trouble sparking it off with pyro.if some have trouble they can grind it finer with a tablespoon

 

[SPQR70AD]

Spoken like a truly uneducated shooter. Black powder cannot be shipped everywhere, unless your little world is all you live in. As well black powder is over double the price of Pyrodex in my area. Lastly, some people like Pyrodex, thus no reason to buy real black.
Sorry bud.
Walk

I always used Pyro cause the gun stores could store it on the shelf and not have to build a nuclear bomb proof magazine to store BP

 

[SPQR70AD]

I’ve used Pyodex, i keep 2-3 lbs, I don’t use it often. The key to getting it to work in a flintlock is mix in a very small amount of 4f, for every 500 grams I use a 1/4 table spoon of 4f and evenly distribute, I’m not a fan of mixing powders but it works just fine. (Same with with Triple 7).

As far as it being more corrosive than BP, there’s more additives to pyrodex which can make a gun lock or bore much more dirty and it attracts moisture and ionized particles. That’s without saying if you’re not good a cleaning your guns, and use pyrodex you’ll eventually get pitting and corrosion. If you clean your guns good and regularly, you’re gun will be fine, however. If you’re only using BP and don’t clean your guns well or often, you’ll find its almost equally as corrosive.

A few months back I picked up a Charleville 1766 by Navy arms on auction for my regiment, the pan had to be cleaned and polished and then I spot welded some pits, I suspect because Pyrodex was used and the pan was not cleaned much ever or just wiped down, soap and water must be used and then lubricant.

people seem to think BP is so clean and almost non corrosive where I have found a pistol or a rifle fired with BP looks like they were pulled out of the rubble pile of the trade centers. also BP fouls the barrel leading to swabbing it and Pyro doesnt. BP will rust your gun to unusable if not cleaned. I dont care what anybody uses but why make things up

 

[SPQR70AD]

It's not snobbery. I shoot flintlocks. I have some American Pioneer powder that I often shoot in cap lock guns.

I don't like needing a bunch of powders... All the Billy-Bob, boutique hunting stuff for your inline won't work in my guns, so I am not buying it.

I think american pioneer powder is great stuff. where do you get it?

 

[dave951]

people seem to think BP is so clean and almost non corrosive where I have found a pistol or a rifle fired with BP looks like they were pulled out of the rubble pile of the trade centers. also BP fouls the barrel leading to swabbing it and Pyro doesnt. BP will rust your gun to unusable if not cleaned. I dont care what anybody uses but why make things up

I go through about 50lbs of Swiss per year and real black is nowhere as corrosive as Pdex. Do you have stock options with Hogdon?

 

[SPQR70AD]

I go through about 50lbs of Swiss per year and real black is nowhere as corrosive as Pdex. Do you have stock options with Hogdon?

do you have stock options with Goex? how do you know about pyro being corrosive if you dont use it. you have tons of experience and use what you are familiar with so use it. I dont understand why guys have to make things up. both BP and pyro are monumentally corrosive and rifles have to be cleaned right after shooting. I have rifles 40 years fired mostly pyro no corrosion it cleans up fast with soap and hot water just like BP

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Spoken like a truly uneducated shooter. Black powder cannot be shipped everywhere, unless your little world is all you live in. As well black powder is over double the price of Pyrodex in my area. Lastly, some people like Pyrodex, thus no reason to buy real black.
Sorry bud.
Wal

How true.....NOT! I've been shooting muzzleloading guns for 42 years. I guess that isn't much experience for most folks here. You guys that " can't find any real black powder" aren't making an effort. As I stated before, just order some up from whatever dealer is selling it and have it shipped to your door. It's really quite easy. I have never been short on black powder.

 

[SPQR70AD]

How true.....NOT! I've been shooting muzzleloading guns for 42 years. I guess that isn't much experience for most folks here. You guys that " can't find any real black powder" aren't making an effort. As I stated before, just order some up from whatever dealer is selling it and have it shipped to your door. It's really quite easy. I have never been short on black powder.

will you advocate for jail sentences for people who use pyro instead of BP? have you ordered thru the mail BP in all 50 states?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

will you advocate for jail sentences for people who use pyro instead of BP? have you ordered thru the mail BP in all 50 states?

Yes, every time I order black powder I do so from a different state. I'm on my second time around now. Your post get's the "most ridiculous" award.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Yes, every time I order black powder I do so from a different state. I'm on my second time around now. Your post get's the "most ridiculous" award.

order some for me. in my state where anything to do with ammo powder primers even bullets cant be done in the mail only buying it in a gun store

 

[Walkingeagle]

How true.....NOT! I've been shooting muzzleloading guns for 42 years. I guess that isn't much experience for most folks here. You guys that " can't find any real black powder" aren't making an effort. As I stated before, just order some up from whatever dealer is selling it and have it shipped to your door. It's really quite easy. I have never been short on black powder.

Did you see my post on BP costs up here? Would you pay that price when Pyro is less than half? What can you tell me of the shipping regulations in my area? Ever think I’m not in the US? Ahhh, your little world.
Walk

 

[michacooks]

Listening to a podcast yesterday an apparently famous competition shooter in the East somewhere was being interviewed, and at the mention of Pyrodex he and the interviewer both snorted as if using Pyrodex is akin to wearing white after Labor Day. I'm not a Pyrodex enthusiast, but when I got back into muzzleloading it's all I could find locally. I prefer Swiss, and eventually found some.
What propellent do the Kardashians use?

That's all I've been able to find. Just finding center fire powder is hard enough.