Is it uncool to use Pyrodex?

[French Colonial]

Black powder is available online from Powderinc and others, which means that it is available as close as your keyboard so this "it is not available in my area" is just an excuse for I don't want to pay hazmat fees.

Hazmat fees in my mind are just part of the cost of BP and so I pay it and go on down the road, buy it by the case (or two) and its all good.

And another thought, really nice ML guns are expensive (BPCR guns as well) Would you buy a show horse (dog etc.) and feed it the cheapest feed you could find or would you pay a little extra for the good stuff?

I like Swiss, so that's what I buy, don't remember what I paid for the last case cause when I need more what it costs is what I will pay.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Folks who properly clean and preserve their guns have no problem with corrosion from firing either black powder or Pyrodex. My guns were untouched by human hands for long as two years while i worked overseas. None rusted.

For years hunters brought their neglected guns to be made serviceable for deer season.
There is no difference in the damage caused by failure to clean guns after firing either black powder or Pyrodex. Uncleaned guns that fired black powder are a little cruddier but the corrosion damage is the same.

Finally stopped cleaning up their neglected muzzleloaders. You would have thought that i had violated their civil rights.

Guns with pits and rust in the bores are another case. i absolutely will not own a muzzleloader with a pitted and corroded bore.

In the late 50s and early 60s i traded for and traded away at least 200 original muzzleloaders. 75 percent of the bores were trashed and the breeches were rusted and badly pitted.

i could give two hoots in hades who thinks Pyrodex is uncool.

Won't own a gun with a corroded or pitted bore? That's a laugh. I have had a couple original longrifles and many original muskets and shot guns.. Try to find one without some bore rust and pitting! My most accurate BPCR was an 1885 Trapdoor with a pitted bore. Routinely knocked down 8 or 9 out of 10, 500 meter rams with original sights off cross sticks and real black powder.

I never said it was uncool. I pointed out some faults with it. And cleaning a gun well that has been used with pyrodex depends entirely on the barrel alloy. Most modern steels used in muzzle loaders in the last 30years will clean up well. Your one size fits all statement shows you have no idea what Pyrodex does in older guns with different alloys. Like the people who spout off one size fits all loads for a 50 caliber rifle with out even knowing what gun or barrel thickness it has. There were guns in the 1970's with 13/16th 50 caliber barrels that can't take the same loads as a 15/16 barrel.

 

[FlinterNick]

the question I have is; why does Pyrodex exist at all?

Pyrodex exists because its profitable to manufacture and sell. More profitable than authentic Black Powder.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

with P-DEX, or any other BP, SUB, just clean it, clean it, clean it, how hard is that to understand!?? no matter what you use!

Haha. Tell us what guns you used Pyrodex in and then cleaned up no problem. How many were not modern alloys from the past 30 years. How many Numrich or Douglas barrels from the 1960's? How many original 19th century guns? How many early CVA barrels when they were still made by Jukar in the early 1970's.?

 

[FlinterNick]

Haha. Tell us what guns you used Pyrodex in and then cleaned up no problem. How many were not modern alloys from the past 30 years. How many Numrich or Douglas barrels from the 1960's? How many original 19th century guns? How many early CVA barrels when they were still made by Jukar in the early 1970's.?

Hmmm well everything is relevant than right ? The soap we have today the solvents, the tools, the ability to correct an issue?

I’ve never seen a gun completely ruined by Pyrodex, people ruin their guns.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I agree SPQR70AD, I’ve seen some pretty nasty flintlocks that have only used BP over the years, its equally as bad in terms of corrosiveness. Pyrodex is dirtier but the cleaning conundrum remains the same, clean it or it will rust.

The question is not whether black powder is corrosive. Any ***** knows it is. Pyrodex is more corrosive. Black powder fouling is easier to neutralize. What some negligent owner did with his gun with black powder has no relevance to the scientific fact that Pyrodex is worse. A guy who lets a barrel rust with black powder will certainly have a worse problem with Pyrodex. A sufficient cleaning of black powder to stop corrosion may not be enough to stop Pyrodex. I frequently traveled several hours to weekend matches. A good wipe and swabbing the bore with moose milk was enough to hold the guns for the trip home and to clean the next day. Not so with Pyrodex. A gun would rust over night. I found out the hard way. I did discover that the WW2 US Army bore cleaner neutralized the fouling from Pyrodex, but since I frequently went to matches in PA where real black powder is far more available, I stuck with black powder after that. Given the other substitute powders available, there is no reason for Pyrodex to even continue to exist.

 

[toot]

Haha. Tell us what guns you used Pyrodex in and then cleaned up no problem. How many were not modern alloys from the past 30 years. How many Numrich or Douglas barrels from the 1960's? How many original 19th century guns? How many early CVA barrels when they were still made by Jukar in the early 1970's.?

shooting BP, SUBS in them doesn't ruin the bores, not cleaning them after shooting is the bad guy, how many times does it have to be emphasized, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN. just about every post says to do it, not leave it till whenever!!!

 

[jlatz]

Use it.

 

[MaterielGeneral]

I don't pay HAZMAT fees, so I am stuck with Pyrodex. If I ever get to a store that carries real BP then I will try it. So far Pyrodex has worked for me. I clean as I go and give a good bath when I am done. I do not get rust. Works for me.

 

[dave951]

I don't pay HAZMAT fees, so I am stuck with Pyrodex. If I ever get to a store that carries real BP then I will try it.

How many times have we said that a regular brick n mortar lgs will not carry real black powder thanks to the regulatory nannys?

 

[earlwb]

Powder inc is most promising. But unfortunately they seem to be out of stock on everything. That seems to be the problem with all of the online stores. You wind up paying in advance for BP and waiting for maybe years to get it if even then. I remember that some sources refused to sell online. You had to drive hundreds of miles to buy it in their store. If they even had any left to sell. Some sources only sold it to local residents and no out of state people. Worse is UPS and FedEx are quickly becoming anti-gun anything. Other shippers are a unknown too.

But at powder inc what is reenactment powder? What is skirmish powder? Is it different from regular BP?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'm glad there are some here who know where I should be able to find my black powder locally if I tried harder. I've only lived here all of my life and thought I had a pretty good handle on where the sporting goods stores and gun shops are that might have it

See, you learn something new every day! Lucky for you that you found this forum.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Erg lies part of the Problem for some. Some States enacted laws that jacked up the License fees for Storage. Small mom and Pops said...Im not paying that...we just wont carry it any longer...which made Pyrodex all the more appealing.

 

[Kodiak13]

Pyrodex will work mostly in percussion locks, but I prefer B.P. because of the smoke and smell produced...just love the smell of napalm (oops) I mean B.P. smoke in the morning!!!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Never ,ever use that scurge of the earth Pyrodex. It is the worst thing a human can do! It was put on earth to make sinners out of its users. It will cause club foot, berry, berry and hoof in mouth disease not to mention all your children will be born naked. With that said I have used Pyrodex and i used it to shoot a three shot group at a 100 yards that was one ragged hole? I see no need to change now? ""If it ain't broke don't fix it""!

I think you just admitted to being a sinner. That's OK, confession is good for the soul. As for babies being born naked, there's no need for concern. That often happens---even to folks who don't own a muzzleloader.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I bought a can of 777 in decades ago, did not work as good as holy black.
Been not using it for a long time. I just came across some specs for using 777 in the 1860 revolver.
So we went to Cabela's yesterday and bought the second can Ive ever bought.

Soon as I drive 180 miles round trip to get some caps tomorrow.
Then its time to experiment.

and yes its worthless in a flinter.

 

[LME]

shooting BP, SUBS in them doesn't ruin the bores, not cleaning them after shooting is the bad guy, how many times does it have to be emphasized, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN. just about every post says to do it, not leave it till whenever!!!

Finally someone I totally agree with. I started my M.L> shooting around 1980. I used Pyrodex because it was in my local sports shop and B.P. wasn't. I have never used B.P. but would love to try it. I shoot, I clean and I dry and put the rifle up with no problem. 40 years and nothing has changed?

 

[dave951]

But at powder inc what is reenactment powder? What is skirmish powder? Is it different from regular BP?

Reenactment powder is pretty much designed for blanks only. There is none of the rigorous QC on higher grades of powder to ensure consistency. It's still real black powder, but think of it as the cheapest, lowest quality they can make and still call it "black powder". For live fire, absolutely not the best. Can you live fire with it? Yes, but don't expect to even be in the area code for accuracy and consistency, both of which reenactors don't care much about. They want cheap to make boom smoke.

Skirmish powder? Sounds like a marketing ploy. We skirmishers in the N-SSA care about accuracy and quality so many of us use nothing but Swiss or Old E or a similar grade of quality target shooting powder. Some use Scheutzen or regular Goex, but that's often only for smoothbores. Once someone gets bitten by the live fire competition bug with Civil War arms, they're not going to be wanting to handicap themselves on the range by going cheap on the powder. Like we used to say when building race cars- "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

 

[brushblind]

The only thing uncool about shooting Pyrodex is not cleaning properly after shooting, same with any other black powder.

 

[vince-m]

pyrodex and really don't care what everyone else thinks.