Is Longer Really Better?

[robinghewitt]

Just you wait you Sassy British Fellow. :cursing: I've got a 72" barrel waiting to go into a block of wood that is 72" WITHOUT one of those sissy namby pamby patent percussion breech thingies on it. We'll see then who has the longest..... :rotf: :winking: :blah:

Under English law a barrel is measured from muzzle to point of ignition... :blah:

... and I can lengthen it by adding a silencer :rotf:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Illegal in this country, you win..... :winking:

 

[robinghewitt]

Rats, none of them fit :cursing:

 

[Rocky Johnson]

Mike Silencers are not ilegal but they have to be regestered. :winking: Rocky

 

[weirdjack]

33" or 40"?? Puny girlieman's lengths !!!!
If it ain't over 50" it just ain't a barrel! :grin:
Jack

 

[Rebel]

So Jack, now that yours is long :grin: What do you think of it? Does it shoot any better than your short one? Would still like to hear what kind of groups it is capable of off a bench, and what kind of patterns it throws with shot. Hope to hear some reports from you soon. Take care.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I think that Musketman is pinging on target here with his comments about burning time of powder in the barrel.

Somewhere in the distant past I remember reading that the greatest accuracy was achieved with a charge of powder which had expanded the gassess released with burning/exploding just as the ball reached the muzzle. If the gassess had expanded to the maximum with the ball any distance still down the barrel,then friction would start dragging the ball and ball drop would start earlier affecting accuracy. If the powder gassess were still expanding as the ball left the muzzle,then the expanding gassess would possibly give the ball a little wobble with uneven pressure on the backside. This made sence to me years ago when I first read it,and it still does. I think when we work up a load and get to the point where the ball is right at the muzzle when the gassess have expanded to the maximum then we have reached that magic spot! Other factors affect accuracy also for sure....sight radius et al. Just my thoughts.

Not quite sure what you mean by "maximum expansion point". It is generally believed that maximum gas pressure is reached before the ball has moved more than a few inches and perhaps before it starts to move at all. Once it does start to move the gas "expands" into the increased space behind the ball and continues to accelerate the ball untill it is released at the muzzle. The gas is still expanding at the muzzle. If it were not, there would be no "muzzle blast".
Even with a charge as light as 40 grains 3f in a .54 caliber the Lyman BP Handbook #1 shows a 43" barrel gains 103 fps over a 28" barrel. Now I'm not saying that justifies the longer barrel but it does show that no "point of diminishing returns" has been reached and that gas pressure is still enough to overcome friction and inertia and continues to accelerate the ball.

 

[Wehrmacht]

There's so much about this that I don't know that it's confusing. I wasn't aware of this. However....if the maximum expansion of gassess has occured before the ball gets very far down the bore,how can grains of unburned powder blowing out the muzzle be explained? Seems to me that if unburned powder is blown out,that the gassess would still be expanding from that powder that was still burning well down the bore.??

 

[Rebel]

I think you will find that NO unburned powder makes it out the bore. It is burnt powder and fouling you are seeing. Unless you have a very short barrel and high powder charge, then it MIGHT be possible for some unbuned powder to exit. I hink the firing over new snow or white paper and looking for unburned powder is another of those old wives tales.

 

[rabbit03]

:bow: :bow: :bow:

Well done coyote, well done

rabbit03

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I think you will find that NO unburned powder makes it out the bore. It is burnt powder and fouling you are seeing. Unless you have a very short barrel and high powder charge, then it MIGHT be possible for some unbuned powder to exit. I hink the firing over new snow or white paper and looking for unburned powder is another of those old wives tales.

Hey Rebel,

I did exactly that in Vermont when I got my .50 cal longrifle - went out and shot it at the target in the snow. I think it was around 125 grs. of FFFg when I started seeing the black specks in the snow just in front of me. The patch from the ball was a little farther down range. My barrel is 40¼" long. Recoil was very uncomfortable with 125 gr. and I rarely shoot it with more than 90 gr.

I doubt that it was "burnt powder" specks because burnt powder would be gone...you know a gas... :hmm: Besides that, the specks were numerous and the same size as the powder I was using. I suppose it could have been fouling, but like I said, the size was the same as the FFFg I was using.

---------------------------------------
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[robinghewitt]

how can grains of unburned powder blowing out the muzzle be explained?

We light the powder at the back of the charge, imagine a burning plug of powder being driven up the bore behind the ball :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

And the longer it is in contact with a patch, especially an oily one, the more you get that fizzles instead of exploding.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Hey Rebel,
I have often seen burning grains exit the bore. I have personal pictures of my guns spitting streamers of fire. Now these were roundball loads with 80 grs or more of 2fg. 3fg usually doesn't spit streamers.
YHWH bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Rebel]

Ok guys, it was only my opinion.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Ok guys, it was only my opinion.

Don't worry, even I was wrong once..... :rotf:

 

[Richard Allen]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the issue of whether unburned powder is blown from the barrel is easy enough to prove or disprove, if anyone is really interested in putting the theory to rest.

A sheet could be placed where the majority of the particles appear to fall until enough of that material can been collected to create a minimum charge for that particular gun. The gun could be charged with that material, a wad placed on top of the material, and then attempt to fire the gun. If it fires its unburned powder, and if it doesn't its fouling and it would be easy to retrieve the wad with a ball screw and remove the material from the barrel.

Of course, its always more entertaining to disagree and debate.

Richard/Ga.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Or hold the muzzle up against a closed but empty box with a lid - like a copier paper box.

 

[nchawkeye]

A few years back I was helping the Boy Scouts with their marksmanship merit badge....Had them shooting at balloons with my .40 caliber Bob Watts...its a flinter with a 42 inch barrel...At 20 yards they were hitting the balloons everytime....Even when I loaded with no ball!!! Don't know if it was unburned or burned powder..but those ballons would pop at that range...

Remember the account of Col William Crawford being burned at the stake??? The Indians first fired into his body from close range with no ball...the powder penetrated his skin, while still burning...
That's gotta hurt.

 

[flaming canvas]

Mike Silencers are not ilegal but they have to be regestered. :winking: Rocky

Not federally outlawed. states may have their own rules.