Is muzzle velocity affected by cap types? (Musket vs #11)

[Widows Son]

Hello all, best of the New Year to everyone.
My next range trip I intend to use a chronograph to help my Whitworth load development. I’m awaiting the delivery of some platinum lined nipples, but until then I have to use a beryllium Treso #11, as my Treso musket cap nipples are shot out.

I’m looking for a velocity of 1300fps give or take. If I achieve this using #11 caps and later change back to musket caps, will I have to start all over again or should it not matter much?

Kind regards

 

[Whitworth]

I should think the hotter flash provided by the musket cap would boost velocity a bit over the #11 cap but not too much.

 

[SDSmlf]

I’m looking for a velocity of 1300fps give or take. If I achieve this using #11 caps and later change back to musket caps, will I have to start all over again or should it not matter much?

Would not think it would matter much at say 100 yards or less, but any time I change something, no matter how trivial, I test it. Percussion cap, powder, patched roundball. Change any one one of these three major components, and it’s something to test if I want confidence in my load. Easy enough to test, so why not confirm?

 

[Widows Son]

Would not think it would matter much at say 100 yards or less, but any time I change something, no matter how trivial, I test it. Percussion cap, powder, patched roundball. Change any one one of these three major components, and it’s something to test if I want confidence in my load. Easy enough to test, so why not confirm?

It is a borrowed chronograph and I don’t like to take advantage of other peoples generosity. I could buy my own I suppose but it would be a seldom-used item.

I‘m hoping to develop a load that I can use for 100 or 1000 yards

 

[yonderin]

Hotter cap will light it off better but I'm thinking difference might not be all that significant, all other things being equal.

Big advantage to the hotter cap might be more consistent ignition when it gets cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.

 

[SDSmlf]

It is a borrowed chronograph and I don’t like to take advantage of other peoples generosity. I could buy my own I suppose but it would be a seldom-used item.

I‘m hoping to develop a load that I can use for 100 or 1000 yards

Would think you could see any differences at the range. Start at 100 yards or your favorite distance. The targets will not lie.

 

[Phil Coffins]

If you do chronograph changing only the cap system please post your results. Data is better then “I think” ballistics.

 

[ResearchPress]

Not quite the same as you’re asking, but switching from no. 11 standard to magnum caps I did not find any difference in elevation settings at 1,000 yards. Velocity did not appear to be affected, however what I did get was reliable ignition. In my Metford match rifle I would from time to time get a slight ‘hesitation’ - not really a hangfire - the switch in caps eliminated that variable.

David

 

[Widows Son]

Thank you all for your consideration. I appreciate it muchly.

I‘m also awaiting the delivery of a new base for my tang sight, so I’m not too focused just now on target work. In the mean time I need to experiment with powder charges to give enough energy to move a 550 grain pill. I’ve been shooting the whitworth for 6 months now and it just never occurred to me to actually check with a chronograph.

 

[andy52]

Very little if any changes in velocity with different caps. Unlike smokeless powders that can be changed chemically to increase burn rates. Black powder has a very limited window of burn rate.

 

[Hiddeninsmoke]

The initial back pressure through the nipple, which occurs before the complete powder charge has been ignited, would negate any potential force added from a more powerful cap. The only positive value is more reliant ignition.

 

[oldwood]

Will be little change in velocity. Could be slightly quicker ignition

 

[Red Owl]

Not sure it would make any difference at all. Smokeless powders have a burn rate while black powder is an explosive. Once black powder ignites, that's it. The other aspect is a patched round ball. Look to shotgun pellet velocities. Top speed on magnum loads is still around that 1300 feet per second. As I understand matters, you can only push a round object/ball/pellet so fast. I'd look to what is most accurate.

 

[Hiddeninsmoke]

Not sure it would make any difference at all. Smokeless powders have a burn rate while black powder is an explosive. Once black powder ignites, that's it. The other aspect is a patched round ball. Look to shotgun pellet velocities. Top speed on magnum loads is still around that 1300 feet per second. As I understand matters, you can only push a round object/ball/pellet so fast. I'd look to what is most accurate.

Actually, smokeless powder is an explosive. Black powder burns which is why black powder is available in different grain powder sizes.

 

[pchwcf50110]

If you do chronograph changing only the cap system please post your results. Data is better then “I think” ballistics.

When shooting my .72 Kodiak and .69 October Country GASR, musket caps gave a solid 100 fps advantage over #11's. But we are talking about powder charges 140 grains or more.

 

[hawkeye2]

Smokeless powders are classified by the BATF as propellants rather than explosives and can be displayed on store shelves and sold over the counter. Black powder is classified as an explosive (low grade) and is subject to laws and regulations regarding storage. For a retailer to sell black powder he must have an explosives license.

 

[Hiddeninsmoke]

With the many variable involved, the only way to know the effect of both caps is to fire each cap on an empty barrel with a pressure gauge at the muzzle. There would have to be a significant difference in the pressure at the muzzle for a musket cap to have a positive effect on a load.

 

[Hiddeninsmoke]

Smokeless powders are classified by the BATF as propellants rather than explosives and can be displayed on store shelves and sold over the counter. Black powder is classified as an explosive (low grade) and is subject to laws and regulations regarding storage. For a retailer to sell black powder he must have an explosives license.

BATF regulation:



Smokeless powder designed for use other than in small arms ammunition, and explosive products such as squibs, fireworks, theatrical special effects, or other articles that may contain smokeless powders, are regulated and must be stored pursuant to the regulations at 27 CFR 555, Subpart K – Storage.

It should be noted that persons engaged in the business of importing or manufacturing smokeless powder designed for any use must have a Federal explosives license.

Black powder, by its nature, burns. It is classified as an explosive by the BATF, for quantities large than 50 pounds, for purposes of regulation and control. Below 50 pounds it is exempt from that regulation but not in matters of retail sales. which also require a license.

 

[morehops52]

Hello all, best of the New Year to everyone.
My next range trip I intend to use a chronograph to help my Whitworth load development. I’m awaiting the delivery of some platinum lined nipples, but until then I have to use a beryllium Treso #11, as my Treso musket cap nipples are shot out.

I’m looking for a velocity of 1300fps give or take. If I achieve this using #11 caps and later change back to musket caps, will I have to start all over again or should it not matter much?

Kind regards

I don't think you'd need to start all over again. Velocity is going to be determing by the amount of powder burned until the projectile leaves the barrel. It's more likely that a musket cap will get more volume of flame into the chamber igniting more powder initially. It's possible that more powder gets burned but how much could that be? IIRC years ago I read about shooting over snow to see how much unburned powder was laying on top (had to be packed down). I never bothered to do that be cause i base everything by what shows up on paper.
So idealy, let's say you get a 2-5 fps boost from a bigger cap and how much more from even 10 gr more powder being burned?
You didn't mention what range is your normal but at 100 yds I can't imagine a change of elevation. by more than a few inches if at all. Punching holes in paper tells the tale.

 

[William Lincoln]

It might affect the burn rate slightly--so yes I believe the cap could impact the
ignition penetration rate into the charge and the pressure gradient resulting
in a change in velocity. I do not think the cap is key-so long as it causes
ignition.