I recently bought my first blackpowder rifle, A used CVA plainsman. I noticed that the frizzen had been etched by the previous owner. I assume to create more spark.Will this dull my flints to fast? should I replace the frizzen? thanks Matt
is my frizzen damaged?
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patch knife
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:hatsoff: Welcome to the forum Matt ! Hope you stick around , you can learn plenty of things about muzzleloading here :thumbsup: . I'm no expert , but if it was my rifle I would put a flint in it , load it up and see how it does .
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Well Patch Knife, you may not be an expert but your advice of saying just go shoot it was as much an expert reply as I have ever read!! You have no clue how a gun will perform till you shoot it. A very good reply.
Russianblood
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I've seen frizzen's etched like you are talking to help create more spark. It's tiny pieces of metal being shaved off the frizzen that are the actual spark.
Welcome to the forum Matt! I'll take a stab at this one. I think the top "etch" was made with the flint positioned with the bevel (hump) pointed down. This makes the flint hit the frizzen high. With repeated shootings, the frizzen got a groove worn into it. Then the flint was probably flipped over, bevel up, causing the flint to hit the frizzen slightly lower than the bevel up position, causing a wear mark there. You will find when your flint starts to get dull, flipping it over will cause a good spark. I hope this makes sense to you.
I'll give the flint a flip and hope for the best. I need to buy some ffff powder. right now all I have is goex 2f and it does not seem to work well as a pan powder. I've been tooling around with this gun for two days now and am very excited to shoot it. although powder is a pain to get here in california.
You could most likely sift enough Fine powder out of your can of 2f to use for priming. That or carefully crush a little of the 2f fine enough to use.
Take a 35mm film canister, fill it half full of 2F, drop in a lead ball, snap & hold the lid on tight, and shake the canister vigorously for 30 seconds...you should end up with some very fine "4F" like powder to use in your pan...repeat as requiredMatt Bernal said:
Toomuch_36
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Matt Bernal said:
This is very likely why the "misguided" previous owner put the groves in the frizzen (the "my buddy says so" syndrome). The score marks will chew up your flints in very short order and give very little if any spark (most likely why he unloaded the rifle when his cobbleing didn't work).
As Russianblood said, it is not the flint that gives the spark but pieces of metal being shaved from the frizzen by the flint. The frizzen will have to be resurfaced smooth and re-hardned or else replaced.
If all else is in good order, most likely all you will need is to install a good frizzen and tune the lock.
Toomuch
.......
Shoot Flint
paulvallandigham
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I hate to disagree with my learned expert friends, but that washboard effect on the face of the frizzen usually occurs because the angle of the bottom jaw of the cock to the face of the frizzen is wrong. It should be approx. 60 degrees. Most are not. If it is 75 or more, it is smashing the edge of the flint into the face of the frizzen, bouncing back as the frizzen begins to open, and then striking it a second time as the frizzen is falling away from the flint. The chatter follows down the face of the frizzen. Some times you get sparks, sometimes not.
Of course you need to try it. But, if 2Fg is not working as priming powdr, stop. Make sure the gun is empty. Tun the lights out in the room, and wait in the dark for 10 minutes or more until your eyes grow accustomed to the dark. Then, with NO priming powder in the flashpan, cock the gun, while holding it sideways so you can look across the pan at the flash hole, put the frizzen down, and push the trigger with your left thumb. Watch to see how many sparks you get, and where they land in the pan. If they are not hitting the pan, all the 4Fg powdr you buy or make won't help you. If you aren't getting may sparks, or they are dull orange in color and seem to burn out before they hit the pan, you have problems to fix.
I would recommend first using a dremel tool to grind a smoothe face to that frizzen. If you have a bench grinder handy, use it. Then I would retemper the frizzen, by removing it from the lock, and putting it in your oven at 450 degrees F. for an hour or 2, and then let it cool slowly. Then try it in the gun to see how it sparks. YOu should see more sparks, and they should be at least bright orange. If you wrap the flint with lead, you will get white hot sparks from the same flint and frizzen.
The next problem is that cock. It has to be heated up, and the cock bent forward to that 60 degree angle for the it to work properly, and throw the sparks in the pan. After that is done, you can prime with 4F, 3 F, or @ f, and you won't be able to tell the difference. As long as the priming owder does not dover the touch hole, you should get quick ignition.
Of course you need to try it. But, if 2Fg is not working as priming powdr, stop. Make sure the gun is empty. Tun the lights out in the room, and wait in the dark for 10 minutes or more until your eyes grow accustomed to the dark. Then, with NO priming powder in the flashpan, cock the gun, while holding it sideways so you can look across the pan at the flash hole, put the frizzen down, and push the trigger with your left thumb. Watch to see how many sparks you get, and where they land in the pan. If they are not hitting the pan, all the 4Fg powdr you buy or make won't help you. If you aren't getting may sparks, or they are dull orange in color and seem to burn out before they hit the pan, you have problems to fix.
I would recommend first using a dremel tool to grind a smoothe face to that frizzen. If you have a bench grinder handy, use it. Then I would retemper the frizzen, by removing it from the lock, and putting it in your oven at 450 degrees F. for an hour or 2, and then let it cool slowly. Then try it in the gun to see how it sparks. YOu should see more sparks, and they should be at least bright orange. If you wrap the flint with lead, you will get white hot sparks from the same flint and frizzen.
The next problem is that cock. It has to be heated up, and the cock bent forward to that 60 degree angle for the it to work properly, and throw the sparks in the pan. After that is done, you can prime with 4F, 3 F, or @ f, and you won't be able to tell the difference. As long as the priming owder does not dover the touch hole, you should get quick ignition.
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:thumbsup: Well said Sir; the problem is usually solved in the dark. If the frizzen is so badly chewed up that a new one is needed ,a quick fix is a half sole ,made from banding steel found in scrap at the lumber yard. It is soft ,so with tin snips cut out a piece to fit over the face of the frizzen, bend and all, then get some casenit at the hardware store , follow their directions to harden the face of the piece, it will case harden it darn near all the way through, then shine it up and epoxy it in place. yes epoxy ,fifteen minute will do, not PC but who cares! it works. I have an older rifle that the frizzen was only casehardened And very badly dug up ,half sole has been on it for several years of shooting , it still works just fine thank you. Lonesome Bob
Yep, he can get one right here.[url]
http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm[/url]
$15 and some change
$15 and some change
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To answer my own questions I've done it all. I resurfaced the damaged frizzen and did my best to reharden it. It throws plenty of spark, hot, and into the pan. I purchased a traditions frizzen just to see if its possible to swap parts. I have also finally been able to contact CVA and ordered the original. there prices are pretty reasonable. I will post the results of the parts swap just fot fun.
