Is pure lead really necessary for muzzle loading balls or bullet in rifle or hand gun ?

[DementedMindOfJac]

Thing I'll be dealing with is leading if I use a soft alloy. Any opinions on how hard the bullet needs to be?
It's for use in a 38" long molychrome barrel, square groove rifling 1:20 twist with velocities in the 1350fps range.

I was thinking of starting real hard, maybe 15 BHN and add pure lead to drop the hardness as I go. I have dealt with heavy leading in barrels before, though not MLs, and it's something I'd as lief avoid doing again.

 

[M. De Land]

Strange my pure (sheet lead) needs nothing for sharp edges/bases except running the pot hot , and weight is right up there with mold specs +or - a couple grains (Lyman GP in 50/54 cal ) depending on my casting ability that day . My 530 gr Ellipticals @ 20-1 for shooting long , keeps the nose straight and bases sharp for target /Ed

Check the hardness with a tester and if much over five then there is some tin in it. Pure lead bullets shrink more too and will be smaller in diameter than ones with alloy (tin/antimony) in them.
I have to use 750-775 F. to get my match conicals to stay within in +/- .75 grains for a spread of 1.5 grains total in 500 plus grain bullets.

 

[M. De Land]

Thing I'll be dealing with is leading if I use a soft alloy. Any opinions on how hard the bullet needs to be?
It's for use in a 38" long molychrome barrel, square groove rifling 1:20 twist with velocities in the 1350fps range.

I was thinking of starting real hard, maybe 15 BHN and add pure lead to drop the hardness as I go. I have dealt with heavy leading in barrels before, though not MLs, and it's something I'd as lief avoid doing again.

Most of the guys I used to compete with in black powder cartridge guns use 25-1 lead/tin and had little trouble with leading. I have found that antimony alloys tend to lead barrels more than does lead/tin only alloy.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

Most of the guys I used to compete with in black powder cartridge guns use 25-1 lead/tin and had little trouble with leading. I have found that antimony alloys tend to lead barrels more than does lead/tin only alloy.

Yes. Just my luck. I have plenty mostly antimony alloyed lead. Well, I have until spring to get organized.

 

[M. De Land]

Yes. Just my luck. I have plenty mostly antimony alloyed lead. Well, I have until spring to get organized.

I just shoot the antimony stuff and clean my barrels afterwords. I have found a product that cleans out barrel leading very effectively and that is the Gunzilla cleaner. I leave the bore wet over night and next morning run as tight of a felt shirt patch as will go down bore and the lead comes out in slivers. The patched jag wet with Gunzilla will squeal like a little pig as it grips and pulls lead out of the bore.
I keep all of my worn out felt shirts to make both cleaning patches and ball shooting patches.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

I just shoot the antimony stuff and clean my barrels afterwords. I have found a product that cleans out barrel leading very effectively and that is the Gunzilla cleaner. I leave the bore wet over night and next morning run as tight of a felt shirt patch as will go down bore and the lead comes out in slivers. The patched jag wet with Gunzilla will squeal like a little pig as it grips and pulls lead out of the bore.
I keep all of my worn out felt shirts to make both cleaning patches and ball shooting patches.

Nah... I'll get more lead and some tin and use this for revolver balls and not-yet-real wadcutters. I'm hybernatin' 'till Spring and I got a little 1970-ish underlever airgun project in the works before then anyway so I'm still in the realm of speculation on this project.

 

[Mike in FL]

If you use a separate cylinder loading stand and tools then it would not be a problem with a revolver. Now if the bullets are a tiny bit undersized so that they are kind of a slip fit but snug enough to not move from the recoil then that would work too. But tight where the chambers would shave a ring of lead from the bullets then no do not load using the revolver’s loading ll

I have never found that to be true. Always get that ring of lead when loading balls. Never bent the loading lever either in Italian guns or ROA.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

I have never found that to be true. Always get that ring of lead when loading balls. Never bent the loading lever either in Italian guns or ROA.

Quite. Not unless it was an inherently poorly designed loading system that just got copied in repros. LeMat comes to mind.

 

[stikshooter]

Thing I'll be dealing with is leading if I use a soft alloy. Any opinions on how hard the bullet needs to be?
It's for use in a 38" long molychrome barrel, square groove rifling 1:20 twist with velocities in the 1350fps range.

I was thinking of starting real hard, maybe 15 BHN and add pure lead to drop the hardness as I go. I have dealt with heavy leading in barrels before, though not MLs, and it's something I'd as lief avoid doing again.

At 1250 fps with a proper fit conical /elliptical ,(greaser or paper patched I never get leading with pure or 20-1 . Been doing this for 20+ yrs /Ed

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

At 1250 fps with a proper fit conical /elliptical ,(greaser or paper patched I never get leading with pure or 20-1 . Been doing this for 20+ yrs /Ed

Paper patch... would have thought of that at some point but you saved me the trouble. Certainly something to explore during my hibernation.
I'll be turning a traditional-repro ML into a traditional-looking ML capable of consistent accuracy beyond 500yds.

 

[stikshooter]

Paper patch... would have thought of that at some point but you saved me the trouble. Certainly something to explore during my hibernation.
I'll be turning a traditional-repro ML into a traditional-looking ML capable of consistent accuracy beyond 500yds.

Start with a 1-17 Rice barrel and a Baco Eliptical 443/530 gr/9LB onion skin from Baco arms

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

Start with a 1-17 Rice barrel and a Baco Eliptical 443/530 gr/9LB onion skin from Baco arms

Decided to start with a 1:20 Rice barrel that'll be done sometime next month. Too late to change anything now. I had in mind projectiles in the 350-400gr range. It's a .451 bore.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I have used recycled range lead for Decades.

My mate in Norfolk uk. Lives on range lead 4 of them dig it out and share it

 

[Gordoncourtney]

My mate in Norfolk uk. Lives on range lead 4 of them dig it out and share it

I reamed out one side of my Lee mould , Not to happy with result when sizing to .484 for paper patching , think I’ll put it in lathe and make it 577. Lee just does not do the size I want for paper patching Such is life ha Cold and miserable west of London uk

Oh the flintlock it’s in holts auction

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I reamed out one side of my Lee mould , Not to happy with result when sizing to .484 for paper patching , think I’ll put it in lathe and make it 577. Lee just does not do the size I want for paper patching Such is life ha Cold and miserable west of London uk

Oh the flintlock it’s in holts auction

I reamed out one side of my Lee mould , Not to happy with result when sizing to .484 for paper patching , think I’ll put it in lathe and make it 577. Lee just does not do the size I want for paper patching Such is life ha Cold and miserable west of London uk

Oh the flintlock it’s in holts auction

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

I reamed out one side of my Lee mould , Not to happy with result when sizing to .484 for paper patching , think I’ll put it in lathe and make it 577. Lee just does not do the size I want for paper patching Such is life ha Cold and miserable west of London uk

Oh the flintlock it’s in holts auction

Disclaimer: I'm not being a Richard here, dude.
Is that casting from a cold mould?

 

[waksupi]

I

Disclaimer: I'm not being a Richard here, dude.
Is that casting from a cold mould?

It has to be. No telling the true diameter with bullets like that.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Disclaimer: I'm not being a Richard here, dude.
Is that casting from a cold mould?

No hot mould o, but agree not nice , maybe crappy lead ???? just some experimental , I did the side with the ridges cut with a thread tap , I usually make moulds in brass , it was just an old Lee mould to mess around with always thinking outside the box , hell I am 80 still got my hair The .36 is from
A brass mould I made.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

Maybe try get some better castings an' squish 'em through a die?

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Thing I'll be dealing with is leading if I use a soft alloy. Any opinions on how hard the bullet needs to be?
It's for use in a 38" long molychrome barrel, square groove rifling 1:20 twist with velocities in the 1350fps range.

I was thinking of starting real hard, maybe 15 BHN and add pure lead to drop the hardness as I go. I have dealt with heavy leading in barrels before, though not MLs, and it's something I'd as lief avoid doing again.

I've been trialing hardness myself just recently.
I've found 30:1 (sorry, I don't speak Brinell) to work well for everything.
Apart from PRB in .50 cal and Hollow based .58 ( both 1% tin) I use 30:1. 38/50 1:12 twist, 40/65 1:16 twist, .375 M/L 1:16 twist. .40 M/L 1:16, .45 Gibbs 1:18 twist.
The two cartridge rifles are Breach seated, I have used 20:1 with those but see no real improvement.
My 32/40 with Smokelss likes 20:1.
Now..... A friend I shoot with on Teusdays buys projectiles from a local manufacturer. They are hard.
My Lee tester struggled, I think they came out at 10:1. Those bullets did not expand when fired into hard clay behind our targets. Infact 3 out of 5 I dug up had actually broken. Way too brittle for hunting but they seem to be accurate in his Pedersoli 45/70 Sharps. I would think 20:1 would be maximum. ??
I'm told there have been hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by .22 ammunition Manufacturers over many years, and they have come to the conclusion that 30:1 is the perfect alloy combination. My local Club buys retrieved .22 lead from a Smallbore Club by the tens of kilograms. It Tests pretty much at 30:1. Life is easy.