is Sharps allowed?.

[wb78963]

Advice? Start LOW no matter how well you know the guy who recommends a load. Eventually you'll hit the sweet spot.

Then stop.

the plan is to start with 30 grains of both FFg and FFFg and progress up 5 grains at a time with each. It is possible more bullets will have to be cast to get in all the shooting and what a shame that is. feel pity for me wreathed in honest Black Gunpowder smoke.
Bunk

 

[toot]

SHARPS, I like EM.

 

[Boston Bill]

I have a 45 3 band rifle and 50 cal carbine, both Farmingdale Sharps and I use Bore Butter on the gas plate. I don't shoot more than 20 rounds at a time and have not had any problem removing it for cleaning. Have absolutely no blow by!
Love the Sharps!

 

[Carbon 6]

What other paper cartridge breech loaders were there ?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Fergusson and Hall come to mind.

 

[wb78963]

Boston Bill,
the shooting was at a CAS match six stages with six shots at each stage distances to the targets were seventy five to one hundred twenty five yards. After the match a lot of,people wanted to try it out but we ran out of ammo.
It has the Hahn breech modification and i have no idea how many rounds will foul it up. More that i want to shoot for sure. At 14 bullets per pound that is a lot of time at the casting bench even though my Moose Bullet mold (shameless plug) casts a pair every time.
Bunk

 

[wb78963]

Fergusson and Hall come to mind.

I believe the Ferguson and Hall used a regular paper "cartridge" that held powder and ball but the paper part was not loaded into the chamber. the Sharps used a combustible cartridge that was inserted whole into the chamber. It, I think, stands alone in that loading method.
My knowledge it this area is foggy so if I am wrong I will appreciate corrections.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[Grenadier1758]

I do agree that the Sharps used a combustible cartridge. The Ferguson rifle worked more effectively using a loose ball and powder. I think the Hall cartridge was prone to embers and other issues due to fouling. Both had problems in removing paper at the back of the breech.

Hopefully others can add more clarity to the cartridges used in these and other early breech loaders.

 

[just4fun63]

I just picked one up, how do you make the cartridges.

 

[wb78963]

Hello Just4fun63
Since my Sharps had the beech and beech block modified it uses Charlie Hahn pre made tubes. All that is needed is to cut and glue in the base paper, fill with powder, glue in a bullet and shoot.
That, however, does not answer your question.
If you will search "making paper cartridges for the Sharps rifle" there are several souces. such as Eas Gone with Mark Hubbs, MannyCA, Capandball, or Mike Beliveau (Duelist 1954) all have good information. so pick one you like.
My tubes are not nitrated and occasionally a piece of the tube remains. Mr. Hahn said to just load up another round and shoot it out.
My advise is to make tubes, which is a bit more labor intensive , but make a more consistent round rather than cutting off the tail. of a "period correct" paper dartridge. The tube is a bit more durable and once the sweet spot load is achieved makes a consistent load. easy to maintain
This is all from memory because when I moved my whole file of information did not survive. All I have now is a bunch of half finished cartridges waiting to be completed shot. More on that later.
As I shoot and develop more information it is an intention to post and share what I learn.
Hold center,
Bunk

 

[wb78963]

Just4Fun63,
i did a little research for you and "Musket Matters"has some good Sharps rifle information on shooting and loading.
Enjoy
Bunk

 

[59sharps]

The carbine is a Pedersoli copy of the Confederate Anderson Sharps with brass butt plate and brass barrel band.
The sights have had new dovetails cut and a Marble Bullseye rear sight and an ivory bead front sight to replace the rather feeble original sights.
It has the Hahn Machine Works breech block and chamber improvements and I have had at least 40 rounds fired with no breech fouling problems. I think it could have shot more, but the ammunition. ran out.
The gun has been in storage for about two years due to a move but is in perfect condition and as soon as I can get some bullets molded it will be shot. Two molds are available one is Moose ring tail mold and thre other is a Precision heeled bullet. I don't have the weights at hand but all are in the 400 to 450 gain ange
I just want to talk to other Sharp Shooters (pun intended) since all my notes and loading data on the gun were lost in the move.
Black powder, RWS caps, and lead bullets is what I feed my guns.I may try some experiments with Black MZ we shall see what happens because it is a bit hard to ignite.
Respectfully
Bunk

Go w the moose All are great but get the bagden stile don’t think it’s listed but he has it or will make it. Tell him CW sent you. Don’t have a pic right now. I’m at deer camp until after thanksgiving weekend.

 

[59sharps]

Since this is starting from scratch my plan is start with 30 grains FFFg and go up 5 grains at a time.
I shoot three shot groups until things start looking interesting. The bullet is a ring tail cast of pure lead in a Moose Mold Co. blocks and lubed with a 50/50 beeswax and lard mix.
My logic is if three shots are scattered why waste powder and lead? If they all go through one hole...rejoice I have found it!

I believe Charlie will recommend 2ffg it saves on erosion of the block face plate

 

[wb78963]

Thanks 58Sharps,
I have a series of tubes loaded with KIK FFg 30 to 50 grain with 5 grain increments.
I might be able to get 55 grains in the tube with the ring tail bullet.
We shall see right now I am sort of restricted with what I can do by a mean old doctor.
Get one that will go in Boone and Crockett nothing less.
Hold center
bunk

 

[hawkeye2]

I believe Charlie will recommend 2ffg it saves on erosion of the block face plate

Indeed Charlie Hahn recommends 2f in the Sharps for that reason and I have found 2f works fine.

 

[toot]

he also makes up the tubas up & sells them, a great guy.

 

[wb78963]

Not being a "Period Correct" sort of guy, I buy tubes from Hahn. Also my carbine has a Marble Bullseye rear sight, a sort of peep sight, and a nice ivory bead front sight.
The original sights were useless, so away they went, new dove tails cut done deal.
Thanks Hawkeye I will start with the FFg set of cartridges.
Bunk

 

[Rudy Thompson]

I thought that rear loaders were not allowed . the sharps rifle is really a cartridge gun paper or metal.
Asking for a friend

 

[hawkeye2]

Fired by a percussion cap on a nipple, they are OK here as are all breech loading firearms that use an external cap rather than a primer in the cartridge.

 

[Rudy Thompson]

Fired by a percussion cap on a nipple, they are OK here as are all breech loading firearms that use an external cap rather than a primer in the cartridge.

I understand that the forum allows discussions on them but should it not be under non muzzle loading weapons