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As a poor ignorant Brit I don’t understand any of this at all. From reading the above it would appear that muzzleloader shooters think that they should have their own hunting season that doesn’t include more modern guns. Why do you believe you are entitled to special treatment?

Are muzzleloaders allowed to join in the modern season?
The answer to your question is YES, but you knew that already, didn't you. 😄
If archery gets its own special season, why not muzzleloaders? As already noted many times, it's always about the money. State agencies can now charge you for two hunting licenses, muzzleloader (if you want to hunt earlier/later in the year), AND the regular gun season.
Ain't govt. logic grand...🤪
 
I don’t understand this comment. Where did I question intelligence or gun laws?
And my main question remain unanswered.
It should also be about the challenge of using more primitive tools. Would it make sense to let modern centerfire rifles hunt alongside bow during bow season? You make it seem like we in the states should just eliminate the different seasons and combine into a continuous season.
 
In Minnesota we have a separate bow season. Our Muzzleloader season is after the firearms season and the weather is awful, deer are skittish and generally is a waste of my time (I am referencing only my zone). So, I hunt with my flintlock during the general firearms season giving me the best chance to fill my tag. In my zone I have less than a 10% chance of getting a buck during the general season.
In TN, muzzleloader starts at the beginning of the rut (Nov. 07 in 2020), so if [you] want a longer range than the 30 yards +/- of a bow for the rut, then you need a muzzleloader. That is a smart monetary move by the state.
Me, I prefer the pre-rut, seems to be a little [more] activity...
 
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Rudaal, I think your question is not out of line or ignorant, seems the traditionalist black powder hunters are a very close minded group, as stated it is a driven money factor for the various states, different license for each type of weapon season be it regular rifle, bow or muzzlel loading. Yes some states have a season for traditional muzzle loaders only, very late in the year the two that come to mind are Pennsylvania and West Virginia. I am not a bow hunter but I am a deer hunter and hunt with the traditional weapons and modern rifles.
 
Rudal, since I started this ruckus I’ll try to explain my thinking. First, Rudal, do not consider yourself ignorant in trying to understand the laws of another country even if we share a common history. I have a 40 y.o. something nephew that hunts deer and routinely gets his tag in every season. Two years ago he asked to borrow one of my muzzleloaders to extend his hunting season. I loaned him a 50 caliber T/C New Englander. He told me he had a friend that would instruct him on it’s use. He tagged a deer. The next year I asked if he want to borrow my muzzleloader. He said no, that he had bought one and would use it. I asked what he got and was told a 50 caliber CVA Wolf inline with a 3X9 Simmons scope on it. He fired 777 pellets under a 300 grain plastic skirted copper bullet. Now, we both would hunt in muzzleloading season but he can do at 200 yards what I can do at 50 yards. My complaint about these is illustrated something like this as an example: I ride a bicycle 5 miles to work everyday. But my only way to get there is a four lane highway. Now I must share this highway with motorcycles, cars and all types of large trucks. Oh how I wished and finally petitioned for a bicycle only lane to get to work. But my state legislator and the government highway dept. have told me there is not enough people riding bikes to warrant a bicycle lane. So I must continue competing against all types of vehicles big and small with my basic transportation. Does this make any sense as a comparison? It’s not that we can’t use a muzzleloader in the long gun seasons. But if you use traditional muzzleloader’s, it’s like taking a knife to a gun fight. It’s not that you might be successful but rather you are extremely handicapped by the uneven capabilities of the weapons. I hope I have been able to convey my thoughts on this in an understandable presentation. God save the Queen and have mercy on the Colonies.
 
Rudal, since I started this ruckus I’ll try to explain my thinking. First, Rudal, do not consider yourself ignorant in trying to understand the laws of another country even if we share a common history. I have a 40 y.o. something nephew that hunts deer and routinely gets his tag in every season. Two years ago he asked to borrow one of my muzzleloaders to extend his hunting season. I loaned him a 50 caliber T/C New Englander. He told me he had a friend that would instruct him on it’s use. He tagged a deer. The next year I asked if he want to borrow my muzzleloader. He said no, that he had bought one and would use it. I asked what he got and was told a 50 caliber CVA Wolf inline with a 3X9 Simmons scope on it. He fired 777 pellets under a 300 grain plastic skirted copper bullet. Now, we both would hunt in muzzleloading season but he can do at 200 yards what I can do at 50 yards. My complaint about these is illustrated something like this as an example: I ride a bicycle 5 miles to work everyday. But my only way to get there is a four lane highway. Now I must share this highway with motorcycles, cars and all types of large trucks. Oh how I wished and finally petitioned for a bicycle only lane to get to work. But my state legislator and the government highway dept. have told me there is not enough people riding bikes to warrant a bicycle lane. So I must continue competing against all types of vehicles big and small with my basic transportation. Does this make any sense as a comparison? It’s not that we can’t use a muzzleloader in the long gun seasons. But if you use traditional muzzleloader’s, it’s like taking a knife to a gun fight. It’s not that you might be successful but rather you are extremely handicapped by the uneven capabilities of the weapons. I hope I have been able to convey my thoughts on this in an understandable presentation. God save the Queen and have mercy on the Colonies.
Since when has hunting become a competition? How are you more handicapped when hunting deer if someone else is using a modern weapon or in-line? How does someone else's range capability hinder your hunting? What in the heck is the analogy of taking a knife to a gun fight have to do with hunting? Do you actually consider hunting a battle between you & other hunters? How does the "uneven capabilities" of weapons extremely handicap you if it is your CHOICE to use a traditional ML? I just don't get it! Hardly an "understandable presentation". Why are so many so concerned & upset over what someone else is hunting with? I believe Rudall asked the correct question. "Why do you believe you are entitled to special treatment?" Unfortunately, he didn't get an answer. I won't even try to decipher the bicycle lane thing!
 
As a poor ignorant Brit I don’t understand any of this at all.
With all due respect I am sure you don't understand any of this because you (and most Brits) have not grown up with the freedom of the outdoors and hunting as we have in the U.S.

A lot if us grew up experiencing many different hunting environments as well as techniques and it is common for most states to have several different seasons dedicated to them such as archery, handgun, muzzleloading etc. It isn't something we believe we are 'entitled' to or are 'wanting' - it's something most of us already have - and have had for a long time.

However specifically with Muzzleloaders it was a case of technology moving faster than the laws and a lot of states overlooked the 'encroachment' of inlines into what had long been the domain of 'traditional' muzzleloading guns and equipment.

A LOT of hunters began to see ML seasons as nothing more than another way to hunt longer and bought and off the rack inlines with pellets, sabots etc. and were out in the ML only areas competing with the long term 'traditionalists' and AS long term ML hunters we felt cheated and eventually demanded the laws be modified along 'traditional' lines.

Some states got what they wanted and some did not. It's nothing more than an unfortunate case of technology butting heads with tradition.
 
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OH, thanks for your input. You said hunting is not a competition but when someone else can actually tag a deer at 200 yards that you can only see with binoculars, then it is a competition for resources. I don’t expect anyone to understand my thoughts or even agree with me. I don’t always get my thoughts correctly down in print. I started the thread regarding my state taking comments on changing the state’s definition of a muzzleloader to being to allow loading of powder through the breech and not the muzzle. If it makes no difference want your hunting with, then the only reason for different season is more revenue. And if more revenue is the only reason for different seasons, then why not have every possible type? Including a primitive ML season.
 
Why would you use binos with a flint or percussion. Hunt any way you like, I stand with my previous post about supporting all the shooting venues, Seems to me a bit of confusion has interrupted the thread. Perhaps this discussion should be interrupted before it gets much more evolved. We all hunt for different reasons for me it is the solitude and the ability to match my skill with the intended game animal I pursue, With a flint long rifle. I am happy for any one who has harvested any animal regardless of the weapon as long as it is legal. Also do not mind sharing the season with the in-line guys, We should come together and stop gutting others methods they choose to keep the rich hunting histories of this country alive. The states have classified in-lines as muzzle loaders, they do load from the muzzle and fire from a non-contained cartridge, Those type of weapons just do not fit the time lines of this forum, Perhaps 50-100 years from now those guys will be discussing laxer guns vs. in-lines vs. flintlocks and the regulations on them. Can you scope them yes but then there a guys even on here that scope their side locks, so where does that put them in the scheme of things. Zonie shut it down.
 
I don’t understand this comment. Where did I question intelligence or gun laws?
And my main question remain unanswered.
My post may have sounded harsh, I certainly did not intend it to. Simply quoted your line, I call myself ignorant on occasion, recently had to do it in an email to Jim Kibler about a question I had. The post was directed mainly at the government bureaucracy of both countries and what convoluted ways they can come up with to make laws.

By the way Jim was very understanding with my lack of knowledge and responded quickly.

Don
 
Zonie this thread is causing nothing but misunderstanding and hatefulness. As the OP please take it down and burn it. Thanks
I agree. This is the reason discussing in-line rifles and modern projectiles used in them is against the rules on the forum.

At one time, the forum had a section for discussing In-line rifles and hunting with them. It turned into a all out war of words and insults between the members so, Claude decided, "no more!" and deleted the section while adding the forum rules forbidding discussion of that type of gun.
 
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