Italy 58cal Reproduction Models

[Sharp Shooter]

How do you guys like the Italy 58cal Reproduction muskets? Are they all smoothie? I saw some in good shape on Auctionarms and Gunbroker. I know they will shoot shot and PRB. How about Minnies? Ball w/ no patch?

What rifles shoot minnies well?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Most of the .58 caliber rifle-muskets shoot very well using Minies. I use a .575 Minie weighing about 560 grains over 60 grains of ffg and get good results. One thing I've noticed is the newer guns weigh a lot more than my old Springfield and have a thicker look about them, too.

 

[jdstrang]

Lots of folks shoot Euroarms Enfields very well with minies, using somewhere around 45 gr. of 3f, depending on the piece's taste, under an old-style lyman. Issue sights will shoot high and probably left, and the trigger may be stiff, but a little fine-tuning will make both problems surmountable.

Only one caution: If you've never shouldered an Enfield, you might want to heft one before you buy one. They have a higher comb than American-style (Springfield) CW rifles, and that makes it more difficult for some folks to get their faces down on the stock for a good sight picture. But if you can deal with that, they're quite serviceable.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Lots of folks shoot Euroarms Enfields very well with minies, using somewhere around 45 gr. of 3f, depending on the piece's taste, under an old-style lyman. Issue sights will shoot high and probably left, and the trigger may be stiff, but a little fine-tuning will make both problems surmountable.

Only one caution: If you've never shouldered an Enfield, you might want to heft one before you buy one. They have a higher comb than American-style (Springfield) CW rifles, and that makes it more difficult for some folks to get their faces down on the stock for a good sight picture. But if you can deal with that, they're quite serviceable.

Are the Euroarms Enfields smooth bore? I was looking at one and it looks like a smoothie.

 

[jdstrang]

To the best of my limited knowledge, Euroarms does not make a smoothbore Enfield. Its Web site, [url] http://www.euroarms.net/Avancarica/AVHTM/CatalogoAvancarica.htm[/url]
does not show a smoothbore Enfield. The pictures you linked appear to be a standard, two-band Enfield rifle.

Now, if you want a first-class, out-of-the-box SHOOTER, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention James River Armory:[url] http://www.jamesriverarmory.com/Firearms.htm[/url]
which offers some of the finest, most accurate CW/minie-shooting repros I've seen come out of a shop. They'll cost a little more, but what you get is ready to hit what you aim at with no tuning necessary, if you do your part. Attend to the skirmish-grade guns - they are the most accurate.

 

[faw3]

The rifleing is faint and only 3 lands in mine, it would be easy to think they are smooth bores. But they make no smooth bores. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[torn moc]

YES! That Enfield looks SHARP!
Just wish I had $$$$ right now... wallet is still hurtin from Xmas.......wow
but I got my buffalo hunter .58.
sure sends alot of lead down range.....

 

[arquebus]

The musket in the auction is a Euroarms "London Armoury" Enfield, but not sure which exact model ( 2 band or 3 band). It would definately be rifled if it is factory-original, either 1:48" for a 2 band or 1:72" for a 3 band. I have one of their Musketoons (carbine length) & it is very well made & shoots just fine. I use either a 612gn traditional-style Minie, or a 575gn semi-wadcutter Minie with 45gns FFFg for target shooting.
I am one of those that the Enfield stocks don't fit, I am much more comfortable with my repro. Zouave, but for some matches I have to use the Musketoon. If you get a chance to handle/shoot either style do so, the difference is very noticeable!

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Get a James River 1858 Enfield and the stock WILL fit you. His stocks are properly contoured and are a pleasure to shoot. He uses Rich Cross sights and they give an excellent sight picture, in addition to being very authentic. The Hoyt lined barrels are outstanding. Shooting a roundball rifle truly feels primitive compared to a good rifled musket. These guns are ideal for 50, 100 and 200 yard offhand shooting.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

What would an ideal hunting load be with a Minnie? Around 100gr FFG?

 

[rice1817]

No, 100 grains would probably blow the skirt. Minie rifles kill with mass, not speed. 60 grains was service charge, 70 is an excellent hunting charge. You can go a little higher in powder if you turn down the OD of the plug that goes into the mold to form the hollow base. This makes a thicker skirt, and a slightly heavier bullet. However, it is probably not necessary to do so since a minie with 60 grains will shoot through a whitetail from throat to butthole at 100 yards and keep on going.

 

[arquebus]

I don't know, I've shot original Enfields & they still leave a lump on my cheek after 4 or 5 shots. Just the way I'm built, I guess! On the other hand both original & repro Zouaves, & my original '58 Amberg are all quite comfortable.
Love to shoot my rifle-muskets.....think I get more satisfaction shooting them well than any of my other BP rifles. May be one day I'll invest in a James River conversion, was on their website the other week & was very impressed.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

The "victorian" concept of shooting stance is different from the 3 o'clock stance most shooters assume. The British had the odd notion of a 6 o'clock stance, which would position your feet towards the target. If you stand at 6 o'clock facing the target you'll find that Enfields fit perfectly. Personally, I don't like the position and assume the typical 3'oclock stance and find that the James River 2 band Enfield fits just fine.

For target work I shoot 45 grains of 2FG, and fire over 100 rounds per weekend without discomfort. For hunting I use 60 grains, but since I only fire a squib to foul the bore, and once on game, I never notice if the recoil is harder. It's an odd thing, but I never find any gun recoil objectionable for hunting. You're so focused on the game that you never notice the recoil.

 

[arquebus]

That's interesting, if I understand you correctly they shot facing square to the target, more like shooting a shotgun than a rifle stance?
Almost all my rifle-musket shooting is done from the prone position (MLAIC-style), with the exception of the Musketoon. My standard load is a 612gn Minie with 55gns Goex FFFg, though I experimented with some Swiss FFFg the other day & found 50gns was extremely consistent on target. I'll have to run the two loads over a chronograph & see how they compare. I've never had much success with FFg in my R-Ms.....guess every gun is an individual!

 

[jdstrang]

...guess every gun is an individual!

I've never read truer words on a gun board!! :bow:

 

[rebel727]

I've got an Armisport Enfield and it groups good but shoots to the left a good bit. Had to do some serious filing on the rear sight to get it to shot to poa. I use 90 grs. FF and no blown skirts.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Well,they all shoot high out of the box. You'll get a better sight picture if you replace the front sight with a taller thicker one, rather than filing the rear sight. You can either solder a taller thicker front sight on, or dovetail one.
A taller front sight will prevent you from mounting a bayonet, but that's unimportant unless your a[url] re-enactor...in[/url] which case accuracy is unimportant and you can leave the sights alone.

Best accuracy is usually achieved shooting half the load you're using. With a bullet .001 to .002 under bore diameter, you should be able to cut the X out of the target with a 5 shot group. If the gun isn't delivering that sort of accuracy, you need to tweak the powder charge reconsider your bullet choice and check the bedding.

I find a lot of casual musket shooters have low accuracy expectations and assume the guns are only capable of 3" groups at 50 yards. Properly tuned these arms will shoot on par with a roundball gun at 50 yards, and outshot them at 100 yards and beyond.

I'm still somewhat surprised that rifle muskets aren't the most popular muzzleloading arms since they are so accurate and easy to load.

 

[rebel727]

Iron Jim, when I say it was shooting left I mean it was shooting left several inches at 50 yds. I should have sent it back but figured with some load tweaking it would straighten up but it didn't. I tried charges from 30 grs. up to 120 and it shot left with them all. Tried some bought bullets with the same results. My Lyman cast minies with 90 grs. give the best performance at longer ranges and it groups very well indeed. I see no reason to download it for short ranges.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Why not move the front sight to correct the muskets tendancy to shoot left?

 

[rebel727]

Because it's soldered on not dovetailed and would have in any case been way off center of the barrel. Was a quicker, easier fix to file the rear.